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Old 12-02-2015, 03:51 PM   #3001
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ThudMaker said... View Post
I didn't say you claimed it. I asked for the tweets from these groups.
You asked for me to connect the tweets to Huckabee or Fiorina (explicitly, I quoted you and everything) - except I never claimed they were connected. If you didn't think I was claiming the connection existed, why'd you ask me to find you the evidence? Just feeling lazy?
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Old 12-02-2015, 06:21 PM   #3002
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bnyswonger said... View Post
But really.... if it comes down to him or Hillary you're pushing the Trump lever, right?

Or do you wash your hair that day?
I don't think there's anything short of a gun to my head (or someone I care about) that could make me pull the lever for either of those two.

I would vote for a third party candidate that will certainly lose first.
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Old 12-02-2015, 06:42 PM   #3003
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But really.... if it comes down to him or Hillary you're pushing the Trump lever, right?

Or do you wash your hair that day?
Why don't you just tell me how I'm voting, Bob. It's clear you think you know me when you dont. I've been clear in this thread what my thoughts are on Trump. I'm not giving him another minute of my time as he won't be the nominee for the Republicans. Further, there is a reason he is one of the few candidates who doesn't match up well against Hillary. I can vote a write in candidate anyway as a Republican vote for a statewide election doesn't matter.
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:12 AM   #3004
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I'm not giving him another minute of my time as he won't be the nominee for the Republicans.
You have a lot more faith in the Republican Party than I do.
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:30 AM   #3005
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You have a lot more faith in the Republican Party than I do.
If the Party structure doesn't want him as nominee, they don't have to let him. It's not as if primaries are legally binding elections, they're party run entities. If the GOP wants to exclude Trump tomorrow, they can, end of story. He can run as an independent, but if the GOP brass doesn't want him as the nominee, no amount of support will allow him to overcome that.

I think Thud's right in that Trump won't survive the campaign process, and even if he's wrong about that, he's right in saying the party won't let him be the nominee unless they think he can win (and so much would have to change for them to think that, it's as just as possible that someone on the forum will win the Republican nom).
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:32 AM   #3006
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You have a lot more faith in the Republican Party than I do.
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:37 AM   #3007
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You have a lot more faith in the Republican Party than I do.
The people who don't want Trump are the corporate backers of the GOP. Trump is an anti-immigration, pro-social security, right wing populist. He's everything the corporate-backed, establishment candidates oppose. I have faith that the Republican party will do what its corporate masters desire (just like the Democratic party will as well - we've already mentioned how Wall Street actually feels about the "reformer", Hilary "getting tough" Clinton).

If one's argument is that a major political party in the United States will do something other than "follow corporate interests", one is making a bad argument.
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:38 AM   #3008
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The people who don't want Trump are the corporate backers of the GOP. Trump is an anti-immigration, pro-social security, right wing populist. He's everything the corporate-backed, establishment candidates oppose. I have faith that the Republican party will do what its corporate masters desire (just like the Democratic party will as well - we've already mentioned how Wall Street actually feels about the "reformer", Hilary "getting tough" Clinton).

If one's argument is that a major political party in the United States will do something other than "follow corporate interests", one is making a bad argument.
Tis true.....
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Old 12-03-2015, 02:06 AM   #3009
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link?

The tape Fiorina claimed she saw doesn't exist.

Neither does the tape Dump claims he saw with muslims in jersey city.
Hmmmmmm Maybe Trump wasn't full o shite about that one.......?

http://www.wnd.com/wnd_video/jersey-...XTQokxmJiX0.99
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Old 12-03-2015, 06:47 AM   #3010
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Hmmmmmm Maybe Trump wasn't full o shite about that one.......?

http://www.wnd.com/wnd_video/jersey-...XTQokxmJiX0.99
A report of 8 men cheering on the roof of a building, and still, no actual footage of these guys.
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Old 12-03-2015, 06:59 AM   #3011
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8 = "Thousands and thousands"

I have over a million dollars in my checking account.
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Old 12-03-2015, 07:50 AM   #3012
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eh, all politicians have problems with numbers.
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Old 12-03-2015, 09:01 AM   #3013
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eh, all politicians have problems with numbers.
And yet Trump isn't even a politician. More like a used car salesman.
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Old 12-03-2015, 09:13 AM   #3014
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The weirdest thing about this election cycle...well there are a lot of weird things...is why have no governors gained traction? There are no politicians left in the race (with a legit chance of getting the nomination) who have executive desk experience.
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Old 12-03-2015, 09:17 AM   #3015
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You honestly think Jeb has no shot?
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Old 12-03-2015, 09:24 AM   #3016
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You honestly think Jeb has no shot?
Currently, he's coming off as the 2nd coming of Rick Perry.
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Old 12-03-2015, 09:48 AM   #3017
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Except that he's in second place in campaign money from the finance industry. (Clinton is first)
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Old 12-03-2015, 10:01 AM   #3018
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Except that he's in second place in campaign money from the finance industry. (Clinton is first)
He will likely be the nominee and/or Rubio
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Old 12-03-2015, 10:10 AM   #3019
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He will likely be the nominee and/or Rubio
And regardless of the outcome, we will get four more years of Bush/Obama.
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Old 12-03-2015, 10:49 AM   #3020
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And regardless of the outcome, we will get four more years of Bush/Obama.
I don't think that was ever in doubt.
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Old 12-03-2015, 11:07 AM   #3021
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You asked for me to connect the tweets to Huckabee or Fiorina (explicitly, I quoted you and everything) - except I never claimed they were connected. If you didn't think I was claiming the connection existed, why'd you ask me to find you the evidence? Just feeling lazy?
OK. You said he was full of shit. So essentially he's a liar when he says there isn't anyone in the pro-life movement who would condone this type of action. I agree with what you've said that you haven't claimed the connection, however, is it possible that "normal" people don't really think of radical fringe "groups"? Also, the tweets cdb put up are from individuals, not groups. I would hope those dimwits got shamed on twitter.
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Old 12-03-2015, 11:08 AM   #3022
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You honestly think Jeb has no shot?
Why would anyone with the last name of Bush have a shot? Weren't two of them enough?
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Old 12-03-2015, 11:39 AM   #3023
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Solid read. Lug, you will especially like this one. It's about the media.

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The “Post Truth” News Media
...
In the meantime, politicians who are better liked by the news media get a relative pass on statements that could arguably merit the same brand of scrutiny and analysis as Trump’s.

For example, President Obama claims mass shootings only happen in the U.S.–as he stands in Paris where there was a mass shooting about two weeks earlier. He claims to have met his green energy goals even “quicker” than expected –never mind the instances where the goals weren’t met. He calls the U.S. “the largest country” (Canada and Russia are bigger; China and India have more people). And all of that was just at his December 1 press conference at the Paris climate change summit.

The intent is not to pick on President Obama. To be sure, there is context for the questionable comments. But the point is: reporters do not chew on them for days upon end. They don’t constantly pick arguments with Mr. Obama or demand he apologize. In fact, for the most part, reporters seem simply not to notice.
...
https://sharylattkisson.com/the-post-truth-news-media

Last edited by ThudMaker; 12-03-2015 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Forgot to add link for entire article
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:41 PM   #3024
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is it possible that "normal" people don't really think of radical fringe "groups"?
And that would be the "No True Scotsman" fallacy I mentioned twice.
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Also, the tweets cdb put up are from individuals, not groups.
Except Huckabee's claim wasn't about groups, you focused on that part of my statement (where I said that, in the past, the leaders of more extreme groups have explicitly advocated violence), but it wasn't part of his. Huckabee said no one in the Pro-Life Movement would support such actions - my response was:
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There were people on twitter and facebook calling him a hero. Leaders of extreme organizations within the movement have repeatedly said violent action (including murder) is justifiable.
Cdb's quoted tweets absolutely substantiate my statements (and refutes Huckabee's).
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:55 PM   #3025
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Then we haven't had voter accountability in decades

Most of the information "out there" is buried or promoted in a very biased manner.Such as criticizing a GOP candidate for an offhand comment on the front page while burying the fact that we killed 45 more civilians with drone strikes in a tiny byline on page 42. Responsible journalism , as an industry, died with Morrow and Cronkite.
The notion that there has been zero responsible journalism, including in political reporting, since March 6, 1981, or that only two guys did it in their era, just isn't compelling.

We know a lot about every single set of candidates since then, and it wasn't Cronkite reporting.

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And this is nothing more than a different method to get the same result as the opposition. The DEM party has done the same thing, with the same objective, by colluding with the mainstream media. And the GOP also uses Fox.

And while you and I are debating this meaningless shit, 45 more more people probably just got killed by yet another drone strike and our national debt increased by literally tens of millions of dollars.
Even accepting the questionable premise, Dem "collusion" with MSM somehow manages to generate a lot of MSM TV and print stories highly critical of the last three Dem presidents, let alone members of Congress.

Every political party has always provided a spokespersons' point of view to the media. Rarely if ever does a party get the last word without another point of view included. Btw, the father of modern approaches to spin strategy in presidential administrations is David Gergen, former advisor to Reagan, and guess who his interlocutors were? (Hint: Fox News wasn't around then...)

And yet...we still learned stuff. You didn't see Ronnie, George H.W., or Bob Dole demonizing the media, or disavowing the obligation of presidential candidates to provide explanations to voters. Evasion and spin had ethical limits.
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Old 12-03-2015, 01:03 PM   #3026
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So, if Bernie Sanders says that the Koch brothers are stealing elections and wall street execs are stealing money from the public.....would you lay a murder at his feet if someone killed the Koch brothers or shot up a Wall Street investment firm?
I'm puzzled why you would think such a (widely believed) charge against Wall Street is remotely comparable to abortion, anti-abortion fanaticism, and the language of (false) charges of harvesting baby parts?

Half the population following Sanders is too high on pot and peacing out to know how to operate a gun, or want to.
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Old 12-03-2015, 01:08 PM   #3027
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I'm puzzled why you would think such a (widely believed) charge against Wall Street is remotely comparable to abortion, anti-abortion fanaticism, and the language of (false) charges of harvesting baby parts?

Half the population following Sanders is too high on pot and peacing out to know how to operate a gun, or want to.
It's ok to disagree with Juggs, but don't you DARE go after his clients!
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Old 12-03-2015, 01:09 PM   #3028
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It's ok to disagree with Juggs, but don't you DARE go after his clients!
I was about to say he knows his target market better than I do!
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Old 12-03-2015, 01:14 PM   #3029
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Btw, the father of modern approaches to spin strategy in presidential administrations is David Gergen, former advisor to Reagan, and guess who his interlocutors were? (Hint: Fox News wasn't around then...)
You forgot he also worked for Clinton and Warren Christopher!
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Old 12-03-2015, 01:17 PM   #3030
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King Kashue said... View Post
And that would be the "No True Scotsman" fallacy I mentioned twice.
Got it!

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King Kashue said... View Post
Except Huckabee's claim wasn't about groups, you focused on that part of my statement (where I said that, in the past, the leaders of more extreme groups have explicitly advocated violence), but it wasn't part of his. Huckabee said no one in the Pro-Life Movement would support such actions - my response was:
I know specifically what Huckabee's statement was. You quoted your own statement which is -
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Leaders of extreme organizations within the movement have repeatedly said violent action (including murder) is justifiable.
I'd like to know what organizations those are and if they tweeted stuff.
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