Becoming a Better Bass Player?

[ssimontis]

I can't help but feel that in the last two months, I have not really progressed at all as a bass player. I have tried to continue learning, but I really don't know what to do. I am taking private lessons, but don't feel like they are working as well as they should. There is some stupid six-month deposit so I have to wait in order to cancel, if I can find another instructor until then.

Can anybody give me some advice on how to become a better bass player? Should I:

- Concentrate on music theory
- Get some method books and focus on technique
- Mess around and learn things on my own
- Write my own stuff and learn from that
- Pick up some song books
- ???

[Grant Sharkey]

Are you in a band? Playing out?

The best edumacation you can get is on the stage or in the studio when the audience is watching or the red light it on. It will throw up all the problems you can take to your tutor to help you work on.

I also believe in the study of song writing as well - and investing time into how the bass part contributes to the song. Working out why a tone choice was made, or why the bass slips off the norm in certain parts etc...Mr Nyswonger's songs (as much i still haven't ordered his bloody album yet) have always reminded me of the importance of a great, well constructed bass line for a song.

It's also worth pointing out that out of all of your favourite bass players 99% probably felt like they haven't learnt anything in the last two years with regards to playing the instrument. Once you learn to type, you tend to try and improve on things...sort of like that.

Enjoy it - if the learning is the part you enjoy more than instrument then find some wooten and learn it. if you enjoy the instrument for what it is, enjoy it and keep on rocking! :thumbsup:

Good luck

[ssimontis]

I am in a band, and although they are all good friends of mine, they are over-ambitious deadbeats. The lead guitarist and the drummer want to write albums, but we don't even have enough microphones right now. And who is going to buy an album from a bunch of fifteen year olds? I want to be a cover band, but we only know one song so far, Slither by Velvet Revolver. Everyone who hears it loves it, but we need to learn a lot more.

To make things worse, we all are in marching band and once schools starts will have very little time to rehearse. So it looks like most of my learning will have to be done at home, unless I find another band or manage to convince them that we need to actually do something.

[Grant Sharkey]

Give it time - being 15 and at school isn't the place the band you're going to be in forever is going to start. If you can, hang out with other musicians at shows this summer, and talk to them and watch them...you'll get a load of questions immediately for your tutor.

And like i say - enjoy it. :D

[Les Izzmor]

The first step in becoming a good bass player is to become a liberal.

:D

Actually all of these things you listed will help you become better.

- Concentrate on music theory
- Get some method books and focus on technique
- Mess around and learn things on my own
- Write my own stuff and learn from that
- Pick up some song books

Some other things to get better.

-Play with people better than you
-Play with a metronome
-Find something you want to do on bass, but can't, and have your teacher show you how to do it.
-Tell your teacher what you want. If you're not happy, tell him.
-Practice, practice, practice.

[i_wanna_les_paul]

I'd say listen to and try to play stuff you don't normally listen to or play. My bass playing got much more interesting when I started to listen to funkier music. I've found that what I listen to will generally start to show up in my playing.

Play with people who will challenge you. Loading up on music theory isn't a bad idea, but I'm not convinced it's a surefire way to be a better bass player. Musician? Yes. Bass player? Maybe.

:2c:

Dustin

[Rusty the Scoob]

What are your main weaknesses on bass? If we don't know those, it's impossible to tell you how to get better.

[cdb]

The first step in becoming a good bass player is to become a liberal.

:D

Actually all of these things you listed will help you become better.

- Concentrate on music theory
- Get some method books and focus on technique
- Mess around and learn things on my own
- Write my own stuff and learn from that
- Pick up some song books

Some other things to get better.

-Play with people better than you
-Play with a metronome
-Find something you want to do on bass, but can't, and have your teacher show you how to do it.
-Tell your teacher what you want. If you're not happy, tell him.
-Practice, practice, practice.



+1000000

and listen to a wide variety of music, even if you don't play it, expose yourself to jazz, bluegrass, salsa and check out what the bass is doing

[ssimontis]

What are your main weaknesses on bass? If we don't know those, it's impossible to tell you how to get better.
Well, I know that I rarely use higher frets. Normally I confine myself to the first five frets on each string, and never really use the rest. Whenever I do use some higher frets, songs sometimes seem to make a LOT more sense. But I do not know how to get comfortable with them.

That seems to be my biggest weakness. If I can figure out any more while I am sitting here playing, I'll post them.

[Zamfir]

Give it time...And like I say, enjoy it.


Actually all of these things you listed will help you become better.

- Concentrate on music theory
- Get some method books and focus on technique
- Mess around and learn things on my own
- Write my own stuff and learn from that
- Pick up some song books

Some other things to get better.

-Play with people better than you
-Play with a metronome
-Find something you want to do on bass, but can't, and have your teacher show you how to do it.
-Tell your teacher what you want. If you're not happy, tell him.
-Practice, practice, practice.

+1.

There are plenty of things you can do as Les and you yourself suggested. Playing with your band and working on improving the band's playing is a huge one.

I'd add:

-Listen to and transcribe your favorite player (start with his simpler stuff). Transcribing really forces you to go deeply into rhythm, groove, technique, and tone.

-Work on your reading / sightreading in little digestible bits.

-Record your playing or ideas on whatever you have handy (cassette player, voice recorder...) Isolate what you need to improve most.

-Sing a short motif. Learn to play it all over your fretboard, in different keys. Move it up or down in whole steps, thirds, fourths, fifths, sixths...

-Listen to great players on any instrument and see if you can cop their phrasing with a two bar delay. Stay with it for an hour, constantly listening with one ear and working on rhythm first, maybe pitch later. This one's really cool for training your ear in a deep, deep zone of listening / awareness.



But beyond the wide number of activities you *could* engage in, I'd take a step back and ask what your current goal(s) is/are. Frame those goals clearly, in concrete ways ("In 90 days, I want to improve aspect X...") and prioritize them.

The particular activities/steps you need to get there, are usually dictated by / easier to figure out from the particular goal. In other words, defining the goal first helps you concentrate your efforts more efficiently. :thumbsup:

Keep the input manageable for you. For example, if you're still learning what the harmony of a dominant seventh chord is and sounds like, work on that before you start screwing around with bizarre extensions (b9, #9, #11, 13, b13...) If you're still getting your eighth note triplets down, work on that before you try quarter note triplets or sixteenth notes peppered with rests. If you're working on "House of the Rising Sun," you might want to get comfortable with that and other comparable tunes for a while before going nuts and attempting, I dunno, John Coltrane's "Giant Steps." You get the idea... ;)

Bill Evans the great jazz pianist once suggested that instead of practicing and playing a bunch of things half-assed, you should practice one thing at a time, and practice it until you can do it well.

Don't forget Grant's wisdom - enjoy the ride. The process is at least as valuable as the (temporary) result. :thumbsup:

[Rusty the Scoob]

Well, I know that I rarely use higher frets. Normally I confine myself to the first five frets on each string, and never really use the rest. Whenever I do use some higher frets, songs sometimes seem to make a LOT more sense. But I do not know how to get comfortable with them.

That seems to be my biggest weakness. If I can figure out any more while I am sitting here playing, I'll post them.

In that case, I suggest you take a ruler and draw a diagram of the fretboard. Fill in the note name of every fret on every string, starting from the nut and working your way up.

After that, work on scales. Start with ones down in the bottom five frets where you're comfortable. Then transpose those scales gradually up the neck, gradually stretching your comfort zone.

[Les Izzmor]

Well, I know that I rarely use higher frets. Normally I confine myself to the first five frets on each string, and never really use the rest. Whenever I do use some higher frets, songs sometimes seem to make a LOT more sense. But I do not know how to get comfortable with them.

That seems to be my biggest weakness. If I can figure out any more while I am sitting here playing, I'll post them.

How long have you been playing? Knowing what sounds good at what point in a song only comes from experience.

The more you play the more you learn. After a while you'll say to yourself, "this song could use a bass-line like that other song I know". Or. "I think I could throw some fills in here like I heard in some other song".

You recognize patterns and you also hear things in songs that you never heard before. Thus making it easier to figure things out.

There really is no substitute for experience. Keep at it and set goals for yourself and you'll get better and better.

[Zamfir]

Ah, I just saw the bit about learning the higher frets.

So I'll pass on the "learning the fretboard" exercise that helped me immensely on guitar and now bass, courtesy of the local jazz educator honcho in town:

1. Get to know your friend and mine, the Circle of Fourths. (C -> F -> Bb -> Eb -> Ab -> Db -> Gb/F# -> B -> E -> A -> D -> G -> C). These are now your root notes for this exercise, in sequence.

2. Pick any note from the Circle of Fourths anywhere on your fretboard. Sing its name ("G"), in pitch, as you play it. You can start on 'C' at the beginning to get comfortable with this, but eventually you want to start on any note (e.g., Db, F#, whatever) and learn to go from there.

3. Find and play the next note. Sing its name, in pitch as you pluck it.

4. Wash, rinse, repeat until you get back to the note you started with, or some octave thereof.

On stringed instruments tuned in fourths like bass, it's almost too easy to find the next string and/or jump a whole step for this exercise. So: after doing that for a while, force yourself to play someplace OTHER than the next adjacent string or whole step. Jump wide intervals and strings. Figure out neat patterns that will let you move up your index finger position up chromatically on the neck, or down in some regular interval.


Do this every day, 5-10 minutes per day, for a month or two, and I guarantee you that you will come to know and love spots on your fretboard that you didn't use to play much. :D

The extra value behind this is that so much of Western popular music uses chord sequences whose roots move in fourths, such as the standard "ii-V-I" change. You will come to love the Circle of Fourths as a signpost to know by heart. :D

The same educator from whom I got this loves to point out "There are no hard notes or keys - only unfamiliar ones." ;)

[ModmanQ6]

Lots of good info in here! Definitely free yourself of the open strings if possible. Remember, no matter where you are on the fretboard, you have every note within the 5 frets around your hands in that position. You just start on a different note as the top string first finger reference point. Jam to your cds... play anything and everything even if you think the music is lame. Chances are, once you're trying to learn it, you'll find a whole new respect for the music. :2c:

[ssimontis]

Zamfir, thanks for the exercise. I just played it for about fifteen minutes and that alone seemed to help a lot. And as for how long I have been playing, I have been playing about eleven months now. Thanks for all the help so far.

[takeout]

You're like 15, dude. Give it time. Progress isn't steady - it comes in fits and starts. So you'll have a month-long period where it seems like you learn a new thing every day, then go maybe six months without learning shit.

[basshunter]

ssimontis, these are some wise folks here. Take their suggestions to heart, and remember that all of us, no matter how long we play, go through periods of frustration. Keep playing, have fun with it, and do anything you can to put yourself in situationsz where you can play.
________
jailbroken (http://jailbroken.org)

[ssimontis]

I just heard Garly Willis for the first time today. Wow. Big wow. I think I want to learn some jazz now. And get a fretless bass.

[ModmanQ6]

ssimontis, these are some wise folks here. Take their suggestions to heart, and remember that all of us, no matter how long we play, go through periods of frustration. Keep playing, have fun with it, and do anything you can to put yourself in situationsz where you can play.

Amen to that! I've been playing for 32 years now and can tell you that it is definitely an emotional roller coaster ride. Highs, lows and everything in between, but If I could go back I'd do it all over again... :thumbsup:

[El Duderino]

I am in a band, and although they are all good friends of mine, they are over-ambitious deadbeats. The lead guitarist and the drummer want to write albums, but we don't even have enough microphones right now. And who is going to buy an album from a bunch of fifteen year olds?

Just wondering, why is the lack of microphones keeping you from writing? Just because you can't get a high quality recording doesn't mean you can't write. I've probably helped different people write two or three albums worth of material total and all we have right now are extremely lo-fi recordings, and some of them aren't even recorded, they're just written down and stored away in our minds. Writing music with other people helps you to progress not only as a bass player, but as a musician because it allows you to experiment and see what works when you're playing with a band and what doesn't. Don't worry so much about recording a full length album right now, just have fun.

Also, just bcause you're playing with your friends doesn't mean you can't play with other people as well. One of the things that has really opened my eyes is playing with as many different people as possible, even if it is just every once in a while. I have one group that is all jam/rock/blues type stuff, and then I have another friend that I play with that's mostly folk music, and then I have another group that almost completely plays covers, and then there's the other group that I've played with once or twice that does hard rock/metal. I don't play with all of them all the time, just when I feel that I need to change things up a bit. The people involved with the different groups understand that I have to do what I do to keep my chops up, and they welcome it. However, keep in mind that the more that you play with a particular group, the better the chemistry you will have with the individuals within the group.

Most of all, you're 15. I know it seems like nothing's happening for you and that it never will if you don't do something or anything right now, but just give it time. Wait until you have a few more years under your belt playing with different people, and then actively pursue it to the degree that you see fit.

[ssimontis]

Well, we have a PA system for our band. Our guitarists have a 15W and a 10W amp. So we kind of have to mic them, or you can't hear them at all. We only have one mic for vocals, and that's it. I suppose I should write some music with them, except it normally is the drummer and the lead guitarist who write everything without us knowing. I'll come to rehearsal one day and they will exclaim, "Look what we wrote yesterday!" So they completely exclude the other guitarist and me, and go along playing the new tune. And they wonder why we're never excited about writing new stuff.

In the mean time, I have some friends who play guitar I want to get together with. Hopefully sometime in the next two weeks I can get together with one of them.

[basshunter]

Amen to that! I've been playing for 32 years now and can tell you that it is definitely an emotional roller coaster ride. Highs, lows and everything in between, but If I could go back I'd do it all over again... :thumbsup:


I'd skip the spandex pants this time around though :P ;) :wave:
________
Honda CB400N (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_CB400N)

[ModmanQ6]

I'd skip the spandex pants this time around though :P ;) :wave:
No, that was actually really fun...good times, good times... Tapeworm wouldn't have been the same without the spandex, hair spray and makeup...

[El Duderino]

Well, we have a PA system for our band. Our guitarists have a 15W and a 10W amp. So we kind of have to mic them, or you can't hear them at all. We only have one mic for vocals, and that's it.

Funny, any group that I've played with hasn't had a proper PA, and we've never had problems hearing anything. It's just a matter of adjusting the volumes where appropriate so that things aren't drowned out. Back when I started playing, two of the guys I play with had 30 and 15 watt amps with 10 inch speakers while I was stuck with a Peavey Microbass with 15 watts and an 8 inch speaker that I couldn't turn up past halfway without getting horrible distortion and hum, so everyone cooperated and adjusted the volume levels to accomodate the overall sound.

I suppose I should write some music with them, except it normally is the drummer and the lead guitarist who write everything without us knowing. I'll come to rehearsal one day and they will exclaim, "Look what we wrote yesterday!" So they completely exclude the other guitarist and me, and go along playing the new tune. And they wonder why we're never excited about writing new stuff.

IMHO, that's just part of being in a band. It shouldn't be a pissing contest as to who actually writes the songs. In one of the groups I write with, the guitarist writes about 95% of the material, and he has even written bass parts for some of them, which I don't see as a problem. In fact, having other people write parts can make you step up in your playing quite a bit. It's not always about who does what, but more about how you work as a cohesive unit to get the job done.

In the mean time, I have some friends who play guitar I want to get together with. Hopefully sometime in the next two weeks I can get together with one of them.

Good. Like I say, you've got nothing to lose by playing with different people.

[Rusty the Scoob]

I'd skip the spandex pants this time around though :P ;) :wave:

I didn't even know they made Spandex cargo shorts!!!!:eek: :badidea:

[ModmanQ6]

I didn't even know they made Spandex cargo shorts!!!!:eek: :badidea:Spandex bike shorts maybe, but cargo shorts...I don't think so...

He is referring to these:

http://www.freewebs.com/schmeckle/Pict0002.JPG

[Zamfir]

Spandex bike shorts maybe, but cargo shorts...I don't think so...

He is referring to these:

http://www.freewebs.com/schmeckle/Pict0002.JPG

I have to ask...is that you?? :D

You are a brave man... :P

[ModmanQ6]

I have to ask...is that you?? :D

You are a brave man... :P

Jason, see what you've started? :angry:

Yes. That was the late 1988 and the band was Tapeworm. It's amazing how you may dress for a gig after drinking a fifth of Jim Beam between 6 people in an hour before the show...

Tapeworm: We eat you inside out!
Tapeworm: The food's on us!

[Zamfir]

Jason, see what you've started? :angry:

Yes. That was the late 1988 and the band was Tapeworm. It's amazing how you may dress for a gig after drinking a fifth of Jim Beam between 6 people in an hour before the show...

Tapeworm: We eat you inside out!
Tapeworm: The food's on us!

:rofl:

Nice ones.

By the way, your bass is melting all over your lower half. ;)