Ask an Acoustical Treatment Expert...

[ModmanQ6]

When in Rome... :)

[bassmanatlarge]

say that louder, plesae

[MrJoshua]

I'm still toying with the design for my new room, but right now I'm leaning toward something around 16.5'x24' with an 11' ceiling. It will be an all-in-one room - tracking, live band practice, and control room (because I record myself WAY too much to want to run from a control room to the live room and track drums, etc...). I'm leaning toward do-it-myself acoustic treatment, mainly using Owens-Corning 703 and 705-FRK fiberglass. Two of the walls will most likely be slightly slanted, and the ceiling will probably be slanted as well. Any suggestions you'd like to make? :D Based on what I've done so far, it will be sometime this summer before I actually start construction (darn it) and I'll probably change my mind ten or twelve times before then, but for now that's what I'm leaning toward building.

[ModmanQ6]

say that louder, plesae
What?

I'm still toying with the design for my new room, but right now I'm leaning toward something around 16.5'x24' with an 11' ceiling. It will be an all-in-one room - tracking, live band practice, and control room (because I record myself WAY too much to want to run from a control room to the live room and track drums, etc...). I'm leaning toward do-it-myself acoustic treatment, mainly using Owens-Corning 703 and 705-FRK fiberglass. Two of the walls will most likely be slightly slanted, and the ceiling will probably be slanted as well. Any suggestions you'd like to make? :D Based on what I've done so far, it will be sometime this summer before I actually start construction (darn it) and I'll probably change my mind ten or twelve times before then, but for now that's what I'm leaning toward building.
Sounds like a great room. If you are going to be covering the walls completely with the fiberglass and stretching fabric across it, you don't really need to slant them. A good rule of thumb is to fully treat one side whenever you have parallel surfaces, so if you had a standard room you'd treat 2 walls and either the ceiling or floor (probably cheaper with a nice thick pad and heavy pile carpet). Are you building an isolation booth at all? Is this an existing structure you're finishing off, or an external stand alone building? Do you need to soundproof it from the neighbors and also outside noises coming in? Feel free to call me and I'll help talk you through it any time (see sig).

[bill]

Why do bathrooms have the best sound is a home????

[MrJoshua]

I'm most likely aiming at 40-50% cover on each wall, with traps in the corners of course. I'll have a large closet off one side that will double as an iso booth. The walls will be sheetrock, and the ceiling I'm torn between going with sheetrock or putting in a drop ceiling grid. The floor is likely to be concrete at this point. The soundproofing will be minimal - I only make loud noises at decent hours (drums cut off at 9 on weeknights, 9:30 on weekends) and only have one neighbor within 200 yards that isn't related to me. It will be a wood-pole building with corrugated metal roof and sides on the outside, measuring a total of 24'x36', but 12x24' is reserved for a parking area. All acoustic treatment will be mounted in such a way that it can be removed for use in a future studio, since I'll probably only be in this one for a few more years before wanting to build my own house. At that point this building will revert to a garage/shop, with the dividing wall probably coming down (although that's years in the future so who knows). I'll basically be building the studio room inside the outer shell, 2x4 walls with insulation, which should keep the outside sounds down enough for my purposes.

[ModmanQ6]

hmm, sig missing on this particular reply, you better take that as a HINT mr. J, he really dont want you to call:D
See first post...
Why do bathrooms have the best sound is a home????
Depends on what "best" sound means... If you are looking for a nice bright sounding room to play an acoustic instrument in, then that may be what you're looking for. Keep in mind that it's a relatively small space with hard reflective surfaces (ceramic, glass etc...) and will give a nice filling short reverb brightness. If you expand the dimensions of the room with the same qualities, then it can quickly become very reverby and unintelligible. When recording, you generally want the driest signal you can get initially so you have more control over the final mix sound and the application of effects. You can't take out what's in the original track as easily as you can add it... :2c:
Then it's too bad for him that I already have his number via PM from back when I first started thinking about doing this. :D
:D

[bill]

Is there a product that will let air flow though it but still stop sound? Not that I need any now. Say a person wants to keep the bathroom sounds from the rest of the house, they also don't want to insulate the wall to avoid moisture and temperature problems. Do they make a product that would stop the sounds in the walls, but let the air pass though it to take moisture with it, but stop the sound. Like I said, I do not need this product, I am just wondering if anybody makes is?

[MrJoshua]

Is there a product that will let air flow though it but still stop sound? Not that I need any now. Say a person wants to keep the bathroom sounds from the rest of the house, they also don't want to insulate the wall to avoid moisture and temperature problems. Do they make a product that would stop the sounds in the walls, but let the air pass though it to take moisture with it, but stop the sound. Like I said, I do not need this product, I am just wondering if anybody makes is?

It's called a door. When this hypothetical person (we'll call him "you" for the sake of the discussion) is in the bathroom, you should close the door, sealing the room. When the bathroom trip is finished, you can then open the door, allowing airflow. :D Of course you will want to make the walls nice and thick with plenty of mass to damp sound transmission.

[bill]

It's called a door. When this hypothetical person (we'll call him "you" for the sake of the discussion) is in the bathroom, you should close the door, sealing the room. When the bathroom trip is finished, you can then open the door, allowing airflow. :D Of course you will want to make the walls nice and thick with plenty of mass to damp sound transmission.

;);)

How about we change bathroom for basement, I get from time to time, customers who want to be able to send the kids down stairs and don't want to hear them. Just for some info, you should not close off a room or a floor of a house because moisture will pass though the wall, condensate in the wall cavity, from the temperature differance, that will give mold (nasty over used scare word) a food source and a place to grow. So, what I am looking for is a product that will stop sound, but let air pass though it. I hope I said that correct.

[MrJoshua]

Well, there are methods of reducing the sound transmission through air cavities through the use of alternating baffles (basically turning a straight path into a serpentine path using sound-absorbing material such as foam). But I'm not sure that's what you're looking for. :) So I'll shut up and let MMQ6 answer.

[Zamfir]

I usually live in places with large glass surfaces next to a street or parking lot. How do you usually get rid of street noise for cheap? :D

[bill]

Well, there are methods of reducing the sound transmission through air cavities through the use of alternating baffles (basically turning a straight path into a serpentine path using sound-absorbing material such as foam). But I'm not sure that's what you're looking for. :) So I'll shut up and let MMQ6 answer.

What I am looking for is something like sound proof insulation, but I want it to let air pass though it, not work as a insulation, only a sound proof. I think part of the problem is that here in MN it gets very cold in the winter and very hot in the sumer, so we have to build a little different than other parts of the country.

[jwh]

Depends on what "best" sound means... If you are looking for a nice bright sounding room to play an acoustic instrument in, then that may be what you're looking for. Keep in mind that it's a relatively small space with hard reflective surfaces (ceramic, glass etc...) and will give a nice filling short reverb brightness. If you expand the dimensions of the room with the same qualities, then it can quickly become very reverby and unintelligible. When recording, you generally want the driest signal you can get initially so you have more control over the final mix sound and the application of effects. You can't take out what's in the original track as easily as you can add it... :2c:

:D

i agree, the walmart restoom here in atchison is long, narrow, & tall ceilings, all tiled surfaces, i love to go in there & let a G flat fart, & the reverb just goes on forever, when i try it in my small carpeted & sheetrocked restroom at home, it just sounds like, ummmmmmmmm, i dunno, a run of the mil fart, no real presence

[basshunter]

;);)

How about we change bathroom for basement, I get from time to time, customers who want to be able to send the kids down stairs and don't want to hear them. Just for some info, you should not close off a room or a floor of a house because moisture will pass though the wall, condensate in the wall cavity, from the temperature differance, that will give mold (nasty over used scare word) a food source and a place to grow. So, what I am looking for is a product that will stop sound, but let air pass though it. I hope I said that correct.

Like this???

http://www.homasote.com/sb.html

Great product.

[ModmanQ6]

I'm most likely aiming at 40-50% cover on each wall, with traps in the corners of course. I'll have a large closet off one side that will double as an iso booth. The walls will be sheetrock, and the ceiling I'm torn between going with sheetrock or putting in a drop ceiling grid. The floor is likely to be concrete at this point. The soundproofing will be minimal - I only make loud noises at decent hours (drums cut off at 9 on weeknights, 9:30 on weekends) and only have one neighbor within 200 yards that isn't related to me. It will be a wood-pole building with corrugated metal roof and sides on the outside, measuring a total of 24'x36', but 12x24' is reserved for a parking area. All acoustic treatment will be mounted in such a way that it can be removed for use in a future studio, since I'll probably only be in this one for a few more years before wanting to build my own house. At that point this building will revert to a garage/shop, with the dividing wall probably coming down (although that's years in the future so who knows). I'll basically be building the studio room inside the outer shell, 2x4 walls with insulation, which should keep the outside sounds down enough for my purposes.

Sounds great. I'd go with a sheetrock ceiling in the closet/iso booth or you'll have issues. If you're really out in a rural area with no trains, highways or other ambient noises, you may get away with very minimal blocking. The modular nature of your design is nice, but make sure you get it airtight. Small cracks and air openings will cause you to lose soundproofing quickly. (A 1% opening can destroy 50% of your effective soundproofing... :eek:)

Sorry it's taken so long to get back...I'm busy as all get out here this week!! (This is a very good problem btw... :))

[i_wanna_les_paul]

What's your take on "quiet rock" or whatever that special sheetrock stuff is? They're talking about doing my new office with that. However, I may still need a vocal booth or simple treatment (as I conversed with you before).

If we could just get our studio (which has really nice gear in it) fixed of it's air exchange problems, me may actually have the ability to churn out decently quiet vocal cuts. :mad:

[bill]

Like this???

http://www.homasote.com/sb.html

Great product.

Kinda, I was not looking for something you put on the studs. I was looking for something that fills the cavity. I would not want to deal with all the lights, window extension jams, outlets..... all being 1/2 or 5/8 in in the short. Its not something I could not deal with if I had to.

have you ever used this stuff? What is the texture like? Looks like neat stuff. I have never seen anything like it. How spendy is it?

[ModmanQ6]

Is there a product that will let air flow though it but still stop sound? Not that I need any now. Say a person wants to keep the bathroom sounds from the rest of the house, they also don't want to insulate the wall to avoid moisture and temperature problems. Do they make a product that would stop the sounds in the walls, but let the air pass though it to take moisture with it, but stop the sound. Like I said, I do not need this product, I am just wondering if anybody makes is? Use multiple layers of blue board with a maximum application of Green Glue Damping Compound (http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/products/sealants/green_glue.asp) between them, while using Sound Sealant Caulk (http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/products/sealants/caulk.asp) on all of the seams. This will give you double the mass of a single application of the blue board (which is usually code for walls in a bathroom anyway) with a vibrational decoupler between the layers. That's what the Green Glue does, it reduces the vibration transfer which increases your wall's STC (sound transmission class) level. STC=decibel reduction. This stuff works great and gets better as it cures (up to about a month).

It's called a door. When this hypothetical person (we'll call him "you" for the sake of the discussion) is in the bathroom, you should close the door, sealing the room. When the bathroom trip is finished, you can then open the door, allowing airflow. :D Of course you will want to make the walls nice and thick with plenty of mass to damp sound transmission.Now there's the common sense approach, but I don't really think that's what Bill's looking for...

;);)

How about we change bathroom for basement, I get from time to time, customers who want to be able to send the kids down stairs and don't want to hear them. Just for some info, you should not close off a room or a floor of a house because moisture will pass though the wall, condensate in the wall cavity, from the temperature differance, that will give mold (nasty over used scare word) a food source and a place to grow. So, what I am looking for is a product that will stop sound, but let air pass though it. I hope I said that correct.
Once again, you could double up the ceiling with the aforementioned treatment, but in cases like this it's easier to treat the floor above if they have carpeting. Iso Step floor underlayment (http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/products/floor_underlayments/iso_step.asp) can be put under the carpet easily. It comes in 4' x 25' rolls and both blocks airborne sound as well as impact noises. It's also great for floating a floor in a control room. It's made of recycled car tires that are shredded, vulcanized and cut into a sheet.

Well, there are methods of reducing the sound transmission through air cavities through the use of alternating baffles (basically turning a straight path into a serpentine path using sound-absorbing material such as foam). But I'm not sure that's what you're looking for. :) So I'll shut up and let MMQ6 answer. This man has done his research!! I'm impressed!!

I usually live in places with large glass surfaces next to a street or parking lot. How do you usually get rid of street noise for cheap? :D
Are you talking about windows? I sell acoustical blankets that would work. If you want cheap, go to Home Depot and get some plywood and make a plug for the window. When you want to see outside, take it out and set it aside. The thicker and more mass the better, but keep in mind that you either want to cover the whole window and several inches all around, or stuff it in with a blanket surrounding it so it forms its own gasket-like seal... that's doin' it on the cheap! :thumbsup: Remember, Mass blocks sound, fluffy and dense absorbs reflections, and a 1% opening kills 50% of your soundproofing... easy rules of thumb to remember... :2c:

What I am looking for is something like sound proof insulation, but I want it to let air pass though it, not work as a insulation, only a sound proof. I think part of the problem is that here in MN it gets very cold in the winter and very hot in the sumer, so we have to build a little different than other parts of the country. Yes, insulation is light and airy and must be so to work properly. As soon as you compress it, it's insulative value goes right out the window. It will work nicely for attenuation (sound absorption), but sound will go straight through it and not be blocked (although iit will filter out high frequencies...

Like this???

http://www.homasote.com/sb.html

Great product. Perhaps, but it's made of cellulose and will suck up moisture like a sponge... it's also not that efficient at blocking sound... sorry Jason.. :)

[ModmanQ6]

What's your take on "quiet rock" or whatever that special sheetrock stuff is? They're talking about doing my new office with that. However, I may still need a vocal booth or simple treatment (as I conversed with you before).

If we could just get our studio (which has really nice gear in it) fixed of it's air exchange problems, me may actually have the ability to churn out decently quiet vocal cuts. :mad:
Quiet Rock is essentially pre-fab sheetrock with a damping compound in it like the Green Glue solution I mentioned above.
The air exchange problem can be addressed by lining the 90 degree bends in your ductwork with some foam. Sound can't turn corners, it has to bounce, so if you put sound absorptive material in it's reflection zones, it stops, but the air still flows. Also, don't put a grille with lots of narrow vent fins at your outlet or you'll get turbulence noise from the air flowing through the grate.

Kinda, I was not looking for something you put on the studs. I was looking for something that fills the cavity. I would not want to deal with all the lights, window extension jams, outlets..... all being 1/2 or 5/8 in in the short. Its not something I could not deal with if I had to.

have you ever used this stuff? What is the texture like? Looks like neat stuff. I have never seen anything like it. How spendy is it?
There is nothing I know of that can fill a cavity and has the properties you are asking for. If doing the actual bathroom is too much of a PIA, then do the other side of the wall in the room where they are hearing the bathroom sounds. It probably has way fewer obstacles anyway...

[bill]

snip

:super:

Thats the info I was looking for, thanks so much:super:

[ModmanQ6]

My pleasure!

[Zamfir]

Are you talking about windows?

Yes. :D

I sell acoustical blankets that would work. If you want cheap, go to Home Depot and get some plywood and make a plug for the window. When you want to see outside, take it out and set it aside. The thicker and more mass the better, but keep in mind that you either want to cover the whole window and several inches all around, or stuff it in with a blanket surrounding it so it forms its own gasket-like seal... that's doin' it on the cheap! :thumbsup: Remember, Mass blocks sound, fluffy and dense absorbs reflections, and a 1% opening kills 50% of your soundproofing... easy rules of thumb to remember... :2c:


My problem is that I gotta move every 2 years to a new set of windows or glass doors... :right:

And there often won't be a Home Depot around to help me... not that I have the foggiest idea how to make a plywood plug.

I figure I'm just gonna have to record direct 100% of the time, but thanks! :D

[ModmanQ6]

Yes. :D



My problem is that I gotta move every 2 years to a new set of windows or glass doors... :right:

And there often won't be a Home Depot around to help me... not that I have the foggiest idea how to make a plywood plug.

I figure I'm just gonna have to record direct 100% of the time, but thanks! :D

Call me and I'll talk you through it... we can talk about home made or pre-fab options that are portable...

[Les Izzmor]

Is there some type of auditory filter that'll make it impossible for me to hear a lug mp3?

I'm thinking maybe they've invented a "suck filter" with a variety of settings. So. You could set it to let in only approved sounds and filter out what you don't want to hear.

For example.

1 - Elementary school bands
2 - Britney Spears
3 - The banjo
4 - Tiny Tim
5 - Boy bands

.....

100 - lug mp3

How much would one of these cost?

[ModmanQ6]

Can you make a room that will shut LT up for awhile?

Not me, but you could and I can tell you how... :D

[ModmanQ6]

Is there some type of auditory filter that'll make it impossible for me to hear a lug mp3?

I'm thinking maybe they've invented a "suck filter" with a variety of settings. So. You could set it to let in only approved sounds and filter out what you don't want to hear.

For example.

1 - Elementary school bands
2 - Britney Spears
3 - The banjo
4 - Tiny Tim
5 - Boy bands

.....

100 - lug mp3

How much would one of these cost?

I think that the patent is still available on that one Les. Invent it and I'll help you market it! :thumbsup:

[ModmanQ6]

:wave: Always glad to help in any way I can... :)

[bassmanatlarge]

do you deal with reflected sound or transference? or am I aver simplifying it?

over the tears I've had to with both...reverb and echo in churches and auditoriums to sound insulation in recording booths

these have been my biggest challenges as a contractor since it seems like its mostly guesswork from the experts

I wish I'd known someone like you decades ago

[ModmanQ6]

do you deal with reflected sound or transference? or am I aver simplifying it?

over the tears I've had to with both...reverb and echo in churches and auditoriums to sound insulation in recording booths

these have been my biggest challenges as a contractor since it seems like its mostly guesswork from the experts

I wish I'd known someone like you decades ago

Both. We deal with everything from absorption, deflection, blocking, diffusion etc... I talk to people from everywhere about anything noise or sound related. If I don't know the answer, I have my boss and several other guys who have many many many years of experience as resources. Yes I work on commission, but I'll help anyone on here in any way I can. I'll help you find local products to do it yourself, or if you do need something I carry, I'll hook you up with a dealio. Currently I am buried with as much business as I can handle, but welcome any questions and answer to the best of my ability... :)

[ModmanQ6]

*Acoustical Buoyancy on...*