about those fenders [Archive]

ptooner

05-11-2007, 06:45 PM

Well, I've been looking for a new bass to get my attention and the damnedest
thing happened today. I was at the GC plugged into my amp of choice (Ampeg
BA115) and going through their stock with the help of my wife when she
brings me over this white Fender J (Mexican). I said, okay, let's see what
the fender thing is all about. I unplugged the MM and hooked up the J std
and -- La Voila! I can't imagine how there can be so much difference in
basses. From the first note you could see this one was something entirely
different from the dozen or so previous basses of half a dozen different
manufacturers. Now with my various limited knowledge of Fender I think that
$499 is a bit on the high side for a J std Mexican, isn't it? Or not? (It
was the cheapest one I tried today) I have it on hold until tomorrow
because I wanted to research the price a bit. Any useful info from you
fender guys? The damned thing really is heavy.
Gerry

05-12-2007, 02:49 AM

Scout out a used one if you can. The prices drop way off on used Mexi bases.
Or wait for a sale. There's always a sale around the corner.

--
Check out my band, West Eats Meat http://www.myspace.com/westeatsmeat

My Homepage, Back By Popular Demand: http://www.jmsjazz.com

"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it
comes out."

- Bill Hicks

"ptooner" <someguy@onthe.net> wrote in message
news:au51i.377$O9.3@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
> Well, I've been looking for a new bass to get my attention and the
damnedest
> thing happened today. I was at the GC plugged into my amp of choice
(Ampeg
> BA115) and going through their stock with the help of my wife when she
> brings me over this white Fender J (Mexican). I said, okay, let's see
what
> the fender thing is all about. I unplugged the MM and hooked up the J std
> and -- La Voila! I can't imagine how there can be so much difference in
> basses. From the first note you could see this one was something entirely
> different from the dozen or so previous basses of half a dozen different
> manufacturers. Now with my various limited knowledge of Fender I think
that
> $499 is a bit on the high side for a J std Mexican, isn't it? Or not?
(It
> was the cheapest one I tried today) I have it on hold until tomorrow
> because I wanted to research the price a bit. Any useful info from you
> fender guys? The damned thing really is heavy.
> Gerry
>
>

Benj

05-12-2007, 04:35 AM

ptooner wrote:
> Well, I've been looking for a new bass to get my attention and the damnedest
> thing happened today. I was at the GC plugged into my amp of choice (Ampeg
> BA115) and going through their stock with the help of my wife when she
> brings me over this white Fender J (Mexican). I said, okay, let's see what
> the fender thing is all about. I unplugged the MM and hooked up the J std
> and -- La Voila! I can't imagine how there can be so much difference in
> basses. From the first note you could see this one was something entirely
> different from the dozen or so previous basses of half a dozen different
> manufacturers. Now with my various limited knowledge of Fender I think that
> $499 is a bit on the high side for a J std Mexican, isn't it? Or not? (It
> was the cheapest one I tried today) I have it on hold until tomorrow
> because I wanted to research the price a bit. Any useful info from you
> fender guys? The damned thing really is heavy.
> Gerry

Ha! So you discovered this truth! If you were to Google way back to
some of my ancient posts, you'd find I was the biggest Fender-hater
around. I tried EVERYTHING to avoid the cursed Fender of my youth!
G&L, MM, Cheap-ass Import Fender clone. In the end, the bottom line
was that if you REALLY wanted "Old School" you simply HAD to get a
"real" Fender! <sigh> My only compromise was getting 5 string active
rather than the passive 4 of yore!

I see the Musician's Friend has them for $450 so with shipping that
isn't THAT far out of line, but as others note, you can score a MUCH
better deal if you can find used, or wait for a sale. But on the other
hand, my experience is that if you find a bass that has the FEEL and
the TONE, just say "screw it" and fork over the bread. You'll never be
sorry you did.
There is some variability in Fender Basses so it's always best to pick
one by playing it first.

Benj

ptooner

05-12-2007, 10:42 AM

"Benj" <bjacoby@iwaynet.net> wrote in message
news:1178955324.828513.157680@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
> ptooner wrote:
>> Well, I've been looking for a new bass to get my attention and the
>> damnedest
>> thing happened today. I was at the GC plugged into my amp of choice
>> (Ampeg
>> BA115) and going through their stock with the help of my wife when she
>> brings me over this white Fender J (Mexican). I said, okay, let's see
>> what
>> the fender thing is all about. I unplugged the MM and hooked up the J
>> std
>> and -- La Voila! I can't imagine how there can be so much difference in
>> basses. From the first note you could see this one was something
>> entirely
>> different from the dozen or so previous basses of half a dozen different
>> manufacturers. Now with my various limited knowledge of Fender I think
>> that
>> $499 is a bit on the high side for a J std Mexican, isn't it? Or not?
>> (It
>> was the cheapest one I tried today) I have it on hold until tomorrow
>> because I wanted to research the price a bit. Any useful info from you
>> fender guys? The damned thing really is heavy.
>> Gerry
>
> Ha! So you discovered this truth! If you were to Google way back to
> some of my ancient posts, you'd find I was the biggest Fender-hater
> around. I tried EVERYTHING to avoid the cursed Fender of my youth!
> G&L, MM, Cheap-ass Import Fender clone. In the end, the bottom line
> was that if you REALLY wanted "Old School" you simply HAD to get a
> "real" Fender! <sigh> My only compromise was getting 5 string active
> rather than the passive 4 of yore!
>
> I see the Musician's Friend has them for $450 so with shipping that
> isn't THAT far out of line, but as others note, you can score a MUCH
> better deal if you can find used, or wait for a sale. But on the other
> hand, my experience is that if you find a bass that has the FEEL and
> the TONE, just say "screw it" and fork over the bread. You'll never be
> sorry you did.
> There is some variability in Fender Basses so it's always best to pick
> one by playing it first.
>
> Benj

I'm afraid that is accurate. I tried several and only one was THE one. I
guess I'll have to bite the bullet and head up there about lunch time.
Gerry
>

Gregory Rochford

05-12-2007, 11:35 AM

ptooner wrote:
>
> I'm afraid that is accurate. I tried several and only one was THE one. I
> guess I'll have to bite the bullet and head up there about lunch time.
> Gerry
>
Remember that all prices are negotiable at GC. Also, if you tell them
you saw it
advertised for $450 at MF, they will probably match that price.

best
gr

Ballroom Dancer

05-12-2007, 11:49 AM

"ptooner" <someguy@onthe.net> wrote in message
news:au51i.377$O9.3@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
> Well, I've been looking for a new bass to get my attention and the
> damnedest thing happened today. I was at the GC plugged into my amp of
> choice (Ampeg BA115) and going through their stock with the help of my
> wife when she brings me over this white Fender J (Mexican). I said, okay,
> let's see what the fender thing is all about. I unplugged the MM and
> hooked up the J std and -- La Voila! I can't imagine how there can be so
> much difference in basses. From the first note you could see this one was
> something entirely different from the dozen or so previous basses of half
> a dozen different manufacturers. Now with my various limited knowledge of
> Fender I think that $499 is a bit on the high side for a J std Mexican,
> isn't it? Or not? (It was the cheapest one I tried today) I have it on
> hold until tomorrow because I wanted to research the price a bit. Any
> useful info from you fender guys? The damned thing really is heavy.
> Gerry
>
Only useful thing I can say is - even if you can find another J std Mexican
for half the price - you may play one hundred different ones, and this be
the only one that you really, really like the sound. Before I bought my RD
Artist, I played over a hundred other bases, right up to a new American
Fender Jazz, and I've never even since 1985 when I bought the Artist found
another bass that has that sound (and it is really heavy - I use a double
strap, over both shoulders for it).
See - you already knew your wife was a "keeper." :)

Jim

ptooner

05-12-2007, 12:26 PM

"Gregory Rochford" <gregory_rochford@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:6hk1i.2784$zj3.2188@newssvr23.news.prodigy.ne t...
> ptooner wrote:
>>
>> I'm afraid that is accurate. I tried several and only one was THE one.
>> I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and head up there about lunch time.
>> Gerry
>>
> Remember that all prices are negotiable at GC. Also, if you tell them you
> saw it
> advertised for $450 at MF, they will probably match that price.
>
> best
> gr

Thanks, he just called and said they'd take $430. ;-)
Gerry

Deputy Dumbya Dawg

05-12-2007, 01:10 PM

"ptooner" <someguy@onthe.net> wrote in message
news:au51i.377$O9.3@bignews7.bellsouth.net...

Any useful info from you
> fender guys? The damned thing really is heavy.
> Gerry

If the heavy part is a minus rather than a plus for you then
try the Squire models. They are pounds lighter and have that
same sound whether you like it or not.

peace
dawg

Les Cargill

05-12-2007, 02:01 PM

ptooner

05-12-2007, 06:09 PM

"Deputy Dumbya Dawg" <Dtyy_Dumbyaa_Dog@whiteehouuse.gov> wrote in message
news:cGl1i.6261$296.5032@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
>
> "ptooner" <someguy@onthe.net> wrote in message
> news:au51i.377$O9.3@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>
> Any useful info from you
>> fender guys? The damned thing really is heavy.
>> Gerry
>
> If the heavy part is a minus rather than a plus for you then try the
> Squire models. They are pounds lighter and have that same sound whether
> you like it or not.
>
>
> peace
> dawg

Thanks, guy, but I tried quite a few of the Squiers and none of them had the
same sound or feel. In fact, neither did any of the American or other
Fenders I found. I wish it wasn't white, but you can't have everything. It
feels good in the hands and sounds good to the ear. Oh yes, I did go back
and get it.

Gerry
>
>

Benj

05-13-2007, 10:38 AM

ptooner wrote:
>
> Thanks, guy, but I tried quite a few of the Squiers and none of them had the
> same sound or feel. In fact, neither did any of the American or other
> Fenders I found. I wish it wasn't white, but you can't have everything. It
> feels good in the hands and sounds good to the ear. Oh yes, I did go back
> and get it.

Yeah, this is the standard thing! Like Ballroom Dancer, when I was in
Fender GAS mode, I was out trying every one in town. And I found some
hideous examples out there! But there were some good ones too!
Generally speaking the Squiers had the most variability, the Mexican
the next and the American the least, but spending a ton of cash on the
American was NOT a guarantee of it being a terrific bass. Only of
being a good bass! Fact is that finding THE ONE, can come from any of
these. Mine it turns out was a Mexican, but I know a guy whose "ONE"
was a Squier. It's just luck and what fits you. When it's right, it's
right and if you don't go for it, you end up sorry! Great Find!

Benj

ptooner

05-13-2007, 11:59 AM

"Benj" <bjacoby@iwaynet.net> wrote in message
news:1179063519.570459.101190@w5g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
>
> ptooner wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, guy, but I tried quite a few of the Squiers and none of them had
>> the
>> same sound or feel. In fact, neither did any of the American or other
>> Fenders I found. I wish it wasn't white, but you can't have everything.
>> It
>> feels good in the hands and sounds good to the ear. Oh yes, I did go
>> back
>> and get it.
>
> Yeah, this is the standard thing! Like Ballroom Dancer, when I was in
> Fender GAS mode, I was out trying every one in town. And I found some
> hideous examples out there! But there were some good ones too!
> Generally speaking the Squiers had the most variability, the Mexican
> the next and the American the least, but spending a ton of cash on the
> American was NOT a guarantee of it being a terrific bass. Only of
> being a good bass! Fact is that finding THE ONE, can come from any of
> these. Mine it turns out was a Mexican, but I know a guy whose "ONE"
> was a Squier. It's just luck and what fits you. When it's right, it's
> right and if you don't go for it, you end up sorry! Great Find!
>
> Benj

Absolutely spot on. I was fortunate to get in that cheap because I was
fully prepared to spend $1500 to get what I wanted. A big part of it is
this bass was setup just the way I like it and I'm very particular. I like
the strings really low because I pick softly - but I don't want them to hit
the frets if I decide to pick hard. This one was right to begin with. ;-)
Then the sound - well you'd think there wouldn't be much variation in
passive basses of a particular model but this one had the elusive sound I
had been hunting on my Ibanez right off the wall. Now I'm trying to decide
between flat wound and half-round strings. I bought both whiile I was
there.

Gerry
>

Gregory Rochford

05-13-2007, 01:42 PM

ptooner wrote:
> "Gregory Rochford" <gregory_rochford@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:6hk1i.2784$zj3.2188@newssvr23.news.prodigy.ne t...
>> ptooner wrote:
>>> I'm afraid that is accurate. I tried several and only one was THE one.
>>> I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and head up there about lunch time.
>>> Gerry
>>>
>> Remember that all prices are negotiable at GC. Also, if you tell them you
>> saw it
>> advertised for $450 at MF, they will probably match that price.
>>
>> best
>> gr
>
> Thanks, he just called and said they'd take $430. ;-)

Then offer him $400 ;)

Benj

05-14-2007, 12:40 AM

ptooner wrote:
> Now I'm trying to decide
> between flat wound and half-round strings. I bought both while I was
> there.

Right now I'm in Fender flat mode! I've said this here before, but
I'll say it again. I was REALLY surprised at the sound of MODERN flat
strings! I was remembering those old flats from days of yore, and the
sound of the new set of flat strings just blew me away.

I do love half rounds too and have them on all my fretless basses.
Buying BOTH! Good call! :-)

Benj

Mike Rieves

05-14-2007, 12:51 AM

"Benj" <bjacoby@iwaynet.net> wrote in message
news:1179114034.199651.315730@e51g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com...
>
> ptooner wrote:
>> Now I'm trying to decide
>> between flat wound and half-round strings. I bought both while I was
>> there.
>
> Right now I'm in Fender flat mode! I've said this here before, but
> I'll say it again. I was REALLY surprised at the sound of MODERN flat
> strings! I was remembering those old flats from days of yore, and the
> sound of the new set of flat strings just blew me away.
>
> I do love half rounds too and have them on all my fretless basses.
> Buying BOTH! Good call! :-)
>
> Benj
>
The last time I used a set of flatwounds was back in 1969 or so, can you
describe the difference in sound of the modern flatwounds?

Benj

05-14-2007, 03:11 PM

Mike Rieves wrote:

> The last time I used a set of flatwounds was back in 1969 or so, can you
> describe the difference in sound of the modern flatwounds?

That was like me! And my memory of those old flats was Dull, Dull,
Dull! When I got the new ones (They weren't anything exotic, just
plain old GHS flats which was all the local store had) I was so
surprised that they still sounded like flats, but there was all this
TONE coming through. I think there are quite a few fans of Fender with
Flats here. I hear that some of the more expensive flats are even
better though I haven't tried them yet. That's all I know.

Benj

Brian Running

05-14-2007, 03:25 PM

> That was like me! And my memory of those old flats was Dull, Dull,
> Dull! When I got the new ones (They weren't anything exotic, just
> plain old GHS flats which was all the local store had) I was so
> surprised that they still sounded like flats, but there was all this
> TONE coming through.

Try this: Take your Fender Precision, string it up with GHS Precision
Flats, put the tone knob at about 75%. Take your Fender medium pick.
Now, drop the needle on "Chicago Transit Authority," on "I'm a Man."
Listen to the intro, recorded in 1969. Now, play the same thing on your
bass.

When I do that, it's perfectly, dead-nuts the same tone. It wasn't dead
then, it's not dead now. Modern D'Addario Chromes, that's another
story. Those are dead, modern strings.

ptooner

05-14-2007, 07:02 PM

"Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
news:XQ12i.3474$mR2.1278@newssvr22.news.prodigy.ne t...
>> That was like me! And my memory of those old flats was Dull, Dull,
>> Dull! When I got the new ones (They weren't anything exotic, just
>> plain old GHS flats which was all the local store had) I was so
>> surprised that they still sounded like flats, but there was all this
>> TONE coming through.
>
> Try this: Take your Fender Precision, string it up with GHS Precision
> Flats, put the tone knob at about 75%. Take your Fender medium pick. Now,
> drop the needle on "Chicago Transit Authority," on "I'm a Man." Listen to
> the intro, recorded in 1969. Now, play the same thing on your bass.
>
> When I do that, it's perfectly, dead-nuts the same tone. It wasn't dead
> then, it's not dead now. Modern D'Addario Chromes, that's another story.
> Those are dead, modern strings.

Well first, I LIKE d'addario Chromes. I have them on my Ibanez and have a
spare set that may go on my fender eventually. For now, I put on some half
rounds and I like the sound. I will probably stay with those for a while.
I played it for rehearsal today for the first time with the half rounds and
the only thing I didn't like was the weight.

Gerry

Brian Running

05-14-2007, 07:29 PM

> Well first, I LIKE d'addario Chromes.

It's good to like your strings, isn't it? Makes you feel all happy all
over.

ptooner

05-14-2007, 08:54 PM

"Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
news:Zp52i.3150$zj3.2932@newssvr23.news.prodigy.ne t...
>> Well first, I LIKE d'addario Chromes.
>
> It's good to like your strings, isn't it? Makes you feel all happy all
> over.

????
I don't get it, or you just trying to irritate me? Or do you have some
problem with people disagreeing with you on something as subjective as
string opinions?
Gerry

Les Cargill

05-14-2007, 10:14 PM

Brian Running wrote:

>> That was like me! And my memory of those old flats was Dull, Dull,
>> Dull! When I got the new ones (They weren't anything exotic, just
>> plain old GHS flats which was all the local store had) I was so
>> surprised that they still sounded like flats, but there was all this
>> TONE coming through.
>
>
> Try this: Take your Fender Precision, string it up with GHS Precision
> Flats, put the tone knob at about 75%. Take your Fender medium pick.
> Now, drop the needle on "Chicago Transit Authority," on "I'm a Man."
> Listen to the intro, recorded in 1969. Now, play the same thing on your
> bass.
>
> When I do that, it's perfectly, dead-nuts the same tone. It wasn't dead
> then, it's not dead now. Modern D'Addario Chromes, that's another
> story. Those are dead, modern strings.

But I get the same thing from well-broken-in roundwounds with
the tone all the way, or neraly all the way, off.

--
Les Cargill

Brian Running

05-14-2007, 11:27 PM

>>> Well first, I LIKE d'addario Chromes.
>> It's good to like your strings, isn't it? Makes you feel all happy all
>> over.
>
> ????
> I don't get it, or you just trying to irritate me? Or do you have some
> problem with people disagreeing with you on something as subjective as
> string opinions?

Looks like no one has to try to irritate you. I said Chromes are
dead-sounding flats. You said you like them. What do you want me to
do? You like the sound of Chromes, good for you! It's good to like
your strings. It's bad not to like your strings. On the continuum of
flatwound string tone, Chromes are the deadest. One of 'em has to be!

Brian Running

05-14-2007, 11:28 PM

> But I get the same thing from well-broken-in roundwounds with
> the tone all the way, or neraly all the way, off.

No, you don't.

Mike Rieves

05-15-2007, 12:00 AM

"Brian Running" <brunning@xxtdsxx.net> wrote in message
news:dV82i.34514$G23.15673@newsreading01.news.tds. net...
>> But I get the same thing from well-broken-in roundwounds with
>> the tone all the way, or neraly all the way, off.
>
> No, you don't.

There's an easy way to settle this one, Brian, Les, just record an MP3 of
your basses playing the intro to "I'm a Man", and we can listen and compare
the recordings with the CTA recording.
Brian, you said "it's perfectly, dead-nuts the same tone", and Les, you
said, "I get the same thing from well-broken-in roundwounds with the tone
all the way, or neraly all the way, off".
Well guys, each of you get to present your evidence, and the members of
A.G.B. get to be the judge and jury. I'm sure that several of us have copies
of the record, I know I do. I'm looking forward to this. :-)
Back in the sixties, I never heard any flatwound set that didn't sound
dead in comparison to roundwounds, but then again, I'm sure I didn't hear
every brand of flatwounds available at the time. To me the advantage of
flatwounds is the lack of finger noise when you slide notes, and if I could
find a good reasonably bright flatwound set, I'd buy them.

Les Cargill

05-15-2007, 12:35 AM

Brian Running wrote:

>> But I get the same thing from well-broken-in roundwounds with
>> the tone all the way, or neraly all the way, off.
>
>
> No, you don't.

Do too.

Neener. Neener. Neener.

--
Yr. Obdn't Srvn't
Les Cargill

Les Cargill

05-15-2007, 12:36 AM

Mike Rieves wrote:

> "Brian Running" <brunning@xxtdsxx.net> wrote in message
> news:dV82i.34514$G23.15673@newsreading01.news.tds. net...
>
>>>But I get the same thing from well-broken-in roundwounds with
>>>the tone all the way, or neraly all the way, off.
>>
>>No, you don't.
>
>
> There's an easy way to settle this one, Brian, Les, just record an MP3 of
> your basses playing the intro to "I'm a Man", and we can listen and compare
> the recordings with the CTA recording.
> Brian, you said "it's perfectly, dead-nuts the same tone", and Les, you
> said, "I get the same thing from well-broken-in roundwounds with the tone
> all the way, or neraly all the way, off".

Nope. Y'all figure it out for yourself.

> Well guys, each of you get to present your evidence, and the members of
> A.G.B. get to be the judge and jury. I'm sure that several of us have copies
> of the record, I know I do. I'm looking forward to this. :-)
> Back in the sixties, I never heard any flatwound set that didn't sound
> dead in comparison to roundwounds, but then again, I'm sure I didn't hear
> every brand of flatwounds available at the time. To me the advantage of
> flatwounds is the lack of finger noise when you slide notes, and if I could
> find a good reasonably bright flatwound set, I'd buy them.
>
>

--
Les Cargill

Benj

05-15-2007, 03:30 AM

Mike Rieves wrote:

> Back in the sixties, I never heard any flatwound set that didn't sound
> dead in comparison to roundwounds, but then again, I'm sure I didn't hear
> every brand of flatwounds available at the time. To me the advantage of
> flatwounds is the lack of finger noise when you slide notes, and if I could
> find a good reasonably bright flatwound set, I'd buy them.

First of all, I do have GHS flats but I don't have a precision bass
these days. But I'm with you Mike. Fact is back in the day I always
played GHS Brite Flats (ground wounds) for the brighter sound. Yes,
they've been around that long! Like you I liked them because they were
brighter than flats but still didn't have the finger noise. Although
I'm sure I didn't try every brand of flat either. Today I only use
grounds for fretless mostly to be as bright as possible without having
serious neck chews.

Benj
(who wonders if playing with a pick isn't "cheating")

Benj

05-15-2007, 03:33 AM

ptooner wrote:

> the only thing I didn't like was the weight.

Heh. Welcome to the Fender players club!

Benj

Brian Running

05-15-2007, 10:48 AM

> There's an easy way to settle this one, Brian, Les, just record an MP3 of
> your basses playing the intro to "I'm a Man", and we can listen and compare
> the recordings with the CTA recording.

You're exactly right, of course, Mike. If I had a place to post them,
I'd do it -- can you do it? I wish we had a convenient way to share
sounds and charts here in AGB, as I was saying yesterday in another
thread, it's hard to discuss music when all you can do is type text.

Anyway, to restate my points, in case they're lost in all this -- one,
they do still make flats that sound just like they did back in the day.
Two, in addition, there are brighter flats available now. Three, you
can't mimic flats with roundwounds. Flats are not muffled or dull, but
they have a much quicker decay than rounds. The only way you can really
imitate flats with rounds is if the flat sound you're imitating is with
the treble rolled all the way off. Then, you can get that sound with
rounds by rolling off all the treble and using a foam mute under the
strings to make the notes decay. Problem is, you end up with a dead,
muffled sound that's not particularly pretty to the ears.

Brian Running

05-15-2007, 10:54 AM

> Back in the sixties, I never heard any flatwound set that didn't sound
> dead in comparison to roundwounds, but then again, I'm sure I didn't hear
> every brand of flatwounds available at the time.

They sound different, of course. The adjective is up to you. Less
sustain, less harmonic content. Depending on the particular brand of
string, it could be "dead." Some of them could produce a bright attack,
some had a deader attack. Just like flats today.

> To me the advantage of flatwounds is the lack of finger noise when you slide notes, and if I could
> find a good reasonably bright flatwound set, I'd buy them.

That's the fun of strings, trying out all the different types and
brands, and seeing what you get. To my ears, "reasonably bright flats"
means GHS Precision Flats. T-I Jazz Flats are brighter, Fenders are
less bright, and D'Addario Chromes are the least bright of all.

coreybenson

05-15-2007, 11:07 AM

On May 15, 8:48 am, Brian Running <brunn...@xxtdsxx.net> wrote:
> > There's an easy way to settle this one, Brian, Les, just record an MP3 of
> > your basses playing the intro to "I'm a Man", and we can listen and compare
> > the recordings with the CTA recording.
>
> You're exactly right, of course, Mike. If I had a place to post them,
> I'd do it -- can you do it? I wish we had a convenient way to share
> sounds and charts here in AGB, as I was saying yesterday in another
> thread, it's hard to discuss music when all you can do is type text.
>
> Anyway, to restate my points, in case they're lost in all this -- one,
> they do still make flats that sound just like they did back in the day.
> Two, in addition, there are brighter flats available now. Three, you
> can't mimic flats with roundwounds. Flats are not muffled or dull, but
> they have a much quicker decay than rounds. The only way you can really
> imitate flats with rounds is if the flat sound you're imitating is with
> the treble rolled all the way off. Then, you can get that sound with
> rounds by rolling off all the treble and using a foam mute under the
> strings to make the notes decay. Problem is, you end up with a dead,
> muffled sound that's not particularly pretty to the ears.

I hearby offer up a page on CurbsideProductions.com as a host page for
anything AGB related. I'll work on getting a page up there shortly.
It'll probably be something like this:

http://www.curbsideproductions.com/agb.html

And I'll put links to it on my links page on the site.

If you need to upload something, let me know and I'll figure out a
mechanism for loading stuff up there.

Corey

email address: corey AT c o r e y b e n s o n DOT c o m (delete all of
the spaces and replace what you need to replace.

Deputy Dumbya Dawg

05-15-2007, 11:15 AM

Deputy Dumbya Dawg

05-15-2007, 11:18 AM

"Brian Running" <brunning@xxtdsxx.net> wrote in message
news:jYi2i.34526

> That's the fun of strings, trying out all the different
> types and brands, and seeing what you get. To my ears,
> "reasonably bright flats" means GHS Precision Flats. T-I
> Jazz Flats are brighter, Fenders are less bright, and
> D'Addario Chromes are the least bright of all.

What do you do with the strings after you use them for a while
and need another sound? Do you put another new set of the
other sound ones on or SAVE the old other sound ones and put
them back on? Different bass' for each set?

peace
dawg

Mike Rieves

05-16-2007, 05:06 AM

"Brian Running" <brunning@xxtdsxx.net> wrote in message
news:WSi2i.34525$G23.11556@newsreading01.news.tds. net...
>> There's an easy way to settle this one, Brian, Les, just record an MP3
>> of your basses playing the intro to "I'm a Man", and we can listen and
>> compare the recordings with the CTA recording.
>
> You're exactly right, of course, Mike. If I had a place to post them, I'd
> do it -- can you do it? I wish we had a convenient way to share sounds
> and charts here in AGB, as I was saying yesterday in another thread, it's
> hard to discuss music when all you can do is type text.

I don't have the space, but Jim Carr might, he likes these kinds of
comparisons.

> Anyway, to restate my points, in case they're lost in all this -- one,
> they do still make flats that sound just like they did back in the day.
> Two, in addition, there are brighter flats available now. Three, you
> can't mimic flats with roundwounds. Flats are not muffled or dull, but
> they have a much quicker decay than rounds. The only way you can really
> imitate flats with rounds is if the flat sound you're imitating is with
> the treble rolled all the way off. Then, you can get that sound with
> rounds by rolling off all the treble and using a foam mute under the
> strings to make the notes decay. Problem is, you end up with a dead,
> muffled sound that's not particularly pretty to the ears.

You're right, I played around with the "I'm a Man" intro and I could get
the tone pretty close by running my tone control about halfway, but on the
recording, the decay was much quicker than with my roundwounds, and I doubt
that you could really simulate it by muting the strings, though you might
get close with a set of old, very dirty roundwounds.
Can you name a couple of the brighter flatwounds? I'm going to stick with
the roundwounds on my Bronco, but I might go with flatwounds on my P-Bass.

Mike Rieves

05-16-2007, 05:11 AM

"Brian Running" <brunning@xxtdsxx.net> wrote in message
news:jYi2i.34526$G23.27660@newsreading01.news.tds. net...
>> Back in the sixties, I never heard any flatwound set that didn't sound
>> dead in comparison to roundwounds, but then again, I'm sure I didn't hear
>> every brand of flatwounds available at the time.
>
> They sound different, of course. The adjective is up to you. Less
> sustain, less harmonic content. Depending on the particular brand of
> string, it could be "dead." Some of them could produce a bright attack,
> some had a deader attack. Just like flats today.
>
>> To me the advantage of flatwounds is the lack of finger noise when you
>> slide notes, and if I could find a good reasonably bright flatwound set,
>> I'd buy them.
>
> That's the fun of strings, trying out all the different types and brands,
> and seeing what you get. To my ears, "reasonably bright flats" means GHS
> Precision Flats. T-I Jazz Flats are brighter, Fenders are less bright,
> and D'Addario Chromes are the least bright of all.

Thanks, I'll go string shopping next weekend and see what I can come up
with.

Brian Running

05-16-2007, 11:02 AM

> What is the problem with posting to www.soundclick.com Brian?

Thanks for the suggestion. I signed up, created an account, uploaded an
mp3 of the P bass with flats -- and I don't have the slightest clue how
to find it now. It's out there, somewhere. Care to help me make it work?

Brian Running

05-16-2007, 11:26 AM

> What is the problem with posting to www.soundclick.com Brian?

Okay, it turns out the problem with posting to soundclick.com is that
I'm too dense to figure out how to make it work right away -- but now I
have.

The topic was, the sound of an old Fender in 1969. Chicago's "I'm a
Man" was recorded in 1969, and it was done with a Fender Precision, with
flatwound strings, played with a pick. You can get the same sound today.

Here's my American Standard P-Bass, with GHS Precision flats, played
with a Fender medium pick:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=702372

That's what it sounded like in '69, that's what it sounds like today.
You can't duplicate that sound with roundwound strings, you can't get
the combination of the initial click attack, the big round sound and the
rapid decay.

Thanks again for the suggestion of using soundclick.

Mike Rieves

05-16-2007, 04:48 PM

"Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
news:rwE2i.6469$H_.2006@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net ...
>> What is the problem with posting to www.soundclick.com Brian?
>
> Okay, it turns out the problem with posting to soundclick.com is that I'm
> too dense to figure out how to make it work right away -- but now I have.
>
> The topic was, the sound of an old Fender in 1969. Chicago's "I'm a Man"
> was recorded in 1969, and it was done with a Fender Precision, with
> flatwound strings, played with a pick. You can get the same sound today.
>
> Here's my American Standard P-Bass, with GHS Precision flats, played with
> a Fender medium pick:
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=702372
>
> That's what it sounded like in '69, that's what it sounds like today. You
> can't duplicate that sound with roundwound strings, you can't get the
> combination of the initial click attack, the big round sound and the rapid
> decay.
>
> Thanks again for the suggestion of using soundclick.

I listened, and while I'd say your tone was just a hair fatter than the
original, you're dead on with the attack and decay. I played around for a
couple of hours trying to get that quick decay with roundwounds, and I found
that I could pretty much duplicate the quick decay by running a strip of
electrical tape around all four strings about two inches above the bridge,
but it screwed up the tone. I agree with you, if you want that exact sound,
the only way you're going to get it is with flatwounds.

Les Cargill

05-16-2007, 09:49 PM

Brian Running wrote:

> Then, you can get that sound with
> rounds by rolling off all the treble and using a foam mute under the
> strings to make the notes decay.

Close - palm or finger mute. Lay your hand at the bridge end of the
strings. Finger mutes are for sustained notes, where you have
time to roll a fingertip from the bridge end of the string until
you kill some vibration off. I'll also brush the string after
plucking to change the envelope of notes.

> Problem is, you end up with a dead,
> muffled sound that's not particularly pretty to the ears.

Its' Useful for things like Patsy Cline songs, though, where
the notes decay quickly. The EB-2 (at least the one I
had access to) came with a switchable mute, which was nice for walking
bass parts.

--
Les Cargill

Brian Running

05-16-2007, 11:01 PM

> Its' Useful for things like Patsy Cline songs, though, where
> the notes decay quickly.

Every Patsy Cline song used tic-tac bass -- and the best way to imitate
that is with a P-bass, flatwound strings, and use a pick.

Mike Rieves

05-17-2007, 12:39 AM

"Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:464ba6b4$0$4908$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Brian Running wrote:
>
>> Then, you can get that sound with rounds by rolling off all the treble
>> and using a foam mute under the strings to make the notes decay.
>
> Close - palm or finger mute. Lay your hand at the bridge end of the
> strings. Finger mutes are for sustained notes, where you have
> time to roll a fingertip from the bridge end of the string until
> you kill some vibration off. I'll also brush the string after
> plucking to change the envelope of notes.
>
>> Problem is, you end up with a dead, muffled sound that's not particularly
>> pretty to the ears.
>
> Its' Useful for things like Patsy Cline songs, though, where
> the notes decay quickly. The EB-2 (at least the one I
> had access to) came with a switchable mute, which was nice for walking
> bass parts.
>
> --
> Les Cargill

Many guitarists use the finger or thumb brush technique to either change
the tone or cause a chimed note, I use it all the time whan playing guitar,
but I never thought about applying it to bass. I'll have to try it. :-)

Les Cargill

05-17-2007, 10:45 PM

Brian Running wrote:

>> Its' Useful for things like Patsy Cline songs, though, where
>> the notes decay quickly.
>
>
> Every Patsy Cline song used tic-tac bass -- and the best way to imitate
> that is with a P-bass, flatwound strings, and use a pick.

The canonical way to get tick-tack bass is to double
upright bass with a muted baritone. You can
do it with a PBass fine - just play up
the neck.

I'm pretty sure the baritone doesn't use flatwounds.

So far, we're talking "Crazy" ( which I'm thinking lacks tick-tack
at all) and "Walkin' After Midnite", where the tick-tack parts are
either so muted that no fundamental shows up, or it's a guitar
or baritone. It's drowned in reverb, so I do those parts on guitar.

"Fall to Peices" sounds like straight electric or upright bass.

Nothing wrong with flatwounds. They're just unnecessary. They feel
great, tho.

--
Les Cargill

Kloka-mo'

05-17-2007, 11:10 PM

"Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:464d054b$0$4716$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> Nothing wrong with flatwounds. They're just unnecessary. They feel
> great, tho.
>

They feel "wormy!" :-)

....Waits for Brian to ask me to define THAT statement ;-)

--
-rob Bartlett, TN
O>
/(\)
^^

Brian Running

05-17-2007, 11:28 PM

> They feel "wormy!" :-)
>
>
> ...Waits for Brian to ask me to define THAT statement ;-)

All right, I think I get the point. Whatever it is/was, I apologize.

Les Cargill

05-18-2007, 08:20 PM

Brian Running wrote:

>> They feel "wormy!" :-)
>>
>>
>> ...Waits for Brian to ask me to define THAT statement ;-)
>
>
> All right, I think I get the point. Whatever it is/was, I apologize.

Brian, I am not being (thumbs through thesaurus... ) obstrepterous. :)

If I get a couple hours free over the holiday weekend, I will
do my best to put sumpin' on Soundclick with the "fake flats"
thing.

If a feller can get a "flats" tone on a PBass w/ roundwounds, it's
just Useful, is all. Beats changing axes.

And, FWIW, I have flats on a Ventura violin-body bass. They
are hard to intonate, because it's a POS, but it sounds very old
school.

--
Les Cargill