What to Expect at Full-Blast Volume????

[Guitarmakermark]

Hi, Guys......

Here I go again, with yet another question about what to expect from
an amp at full volume....

Actually, this post is more about the instrument set at full-blast,
not the amp. You might recall, in an earlier post, I asked about my
cabs farting at near-full volume. Someone in this group suggested, in
reply, that it might be the amp, not the cabs which was causing the
farts.

Just for laughs, tonight I plugged my active bass into my G-K
1001RBII, and with the amp a low volume, turned up the volume on the
instrument, full-bore. Sure enough, the amp was sounding distorted.
Turning up the volume on the amp of course just amplified this
distortion.

Then, for comparison, I plugged in my passive bass, and turned it up
full blast. Again, the pre-amp clip was audible, but not as strongly
as with the active bass.

Interestingly, the pre-amp section's clip l.e.d. never once lit up.
Not once, with either bass turned up all the way.

Next, I tried the same experiment with my older SWR 2x10C combo amp.
At the same relative settings, no clipping was heard. I did hear
clipping with the pre-amp gain turned all the way up, however.

So, again, I realize I'll prolly never have my basses turned up all
the way in real-life but I'd sure like to hear from you mugs, what are
the normal limits for an amp, and, is the above-described clipping
behavior "normal?" Reality check, please........

I'm considering trading up the 1001RBII for the 2001RBII, purely for
the sake of increasing the headroom with the stronger unit. Not that,
Gawd knows, I'd ever have a real need for such power. Don't ask me, I
dunno, it's an obsessive-compulsive thang!!

Thanks, Guys,

Mark

[Todd H.]

Guitarmakermark <Guitarmakermark@Yahoo.com> writes:

> Hi, Guys......
>
> Here I go again, with yet another question about what to expect from
> an amp at full volume....
>
> Actually, this post is more about the instrument set at full-blast,
> not the amp. You might recall, in an earlier post, I asked about my
> cabs farting at near-full volume. Someone in this group suggested, in
> reply, that it might be the amp, not the cabs which was causing the
> farts.
>
> Just for laughs, tonight I plugged my active bass into my G-K
> 1001RBII, and with the amp a low volume, turned up the volume on the
> instrument, full-bore. Sure enough, the amp was sounding distorted.
> Turning up the volume on the amp of course just amplified this
> distortion.
>
> Then, for comparison, I plugged in my passive bass, and turned it up
> full blast. Again, the pre-amp clip was audible, but not as strongly
> as with the active bass.
>
> Interestingly, the pre-amp section's clip l.e.d. never once lit up.
> Not once, with either bass turned up all the way.
>
> Next, I tried the same experiment with my older SWR 2x10C combo amp.
> At the same relative settings, no clipping was heard. I did hear
> clipping with the pre-amp gain turned all the way up, however.
>
> So, again, I realize I'll prolly never have my basses turned up all
> the way in real-life but I'd sure like to hear from you mugs, what are
> the normal limits for an amp, and, is the above-described clipping
> behavior "normal?" Reality check, please........
>
> I'm considering trading up the 1001RBII for the 2001RBII, purely for
> the sake of increasing the headroom with the stronger unit. Not that,
> Gawd knows, I'd ever have a real need for such power. Don't ask me, I
> dunno, it's an obsessive-compulsive thang!!

A few things:

If your battery is weak, full gain on an active bass can give you
distortion on any amp. It's a sign that it's time to change
batteries.

If you are running an active bass wide open into the 1001RB and aren't
in active mode on the amp (i.e. switching in some padding of the input
signal), you can certainly get distortion. I ran into this on
Saturday in fact.

Finally, you can run into clipping somewhere without activating the
LED.

Yes, your desire for more headroom than you actually need does seem a
bit OC!

--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | http://myspace.com/mytriplethreatband

[Pt]

On May 7, 10:47 pm, Guitarmakermark <Guitarmakerm...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

> So, again, I realize I'll prolly never have my basses turned up all
> the way in real-life but I'd sure like to hear from you mugs, what are
> the normal limits for an amp, and, is the above-described clipping
> behavior "normal?" Reality check, please........


If you keep clipping your amps you could be buying new speakers soon.

Pt

[Middle C]

"Guitarmakermark" <Guitarmakermark@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178596043.397420.60290@p77g2000hsh.googlegro ups.com...
> Hi, Guys......
>
> Here I go again, with yet another question about what to expect from
> an amp at full volume....
>
> Actually, this post is more about the instrument set at full-blast,
> not the amp. You might recall, in an earlier post, I asked about my
> cabs farting at near-full volume. Someone in this group suggested, in
> reply, that it might be the amp, not the cabs which was causing the
> farts.
>
> Just for laughs, tonight I plugged my active bass into my G-K
> 1001RBII, and with the amp a low volume, turned up the volume on the
> instrument, full-bore. Sure enough, the amp was sounding distorted.
> Turning up the volume on the amp of course just amplified this
> distortion.
>
> Then, for comparison, I plugged in my passive bass, and turned it up
> full blast. Again, the pre-amp clip was audible, but not as strongly
> as with the active bass.
>
> Interestingly, the pre-amp section's clip l.e.d. never once lit up.
> Not once, with either bass turned up all the way.
>
> Next, I tried the same experiment with my older SWR 2x10C combo amp.
> At the same relative settings, no clipping was heard. I did hear
> clipping with the pre-amp gain turned all the way up, however.
>
> So, again, I realize I'll prolly never have my basses turned up all
> the way in real-life but I'd sure like to hear from you mugs, what are
> the normal limits for an amp, and, is the above-described clipping
> behavior "normal?" Reality check, please........
>
> I'm considering trading up the 1001RBII for the 2001RBII, purely for
> the sake of increasing the headroom with the stronger unit. Not that,
> Gawd knows, I'd ever have a real need for such power. Don't ask me, I
> dunno, it's an obsessive-compulsive thang!!
>
> Thanks, Guys,
>
> Mark

Personally I don't really care how excessively loud I can be, only that I
can get enough volume to hear myself on stage over the drums, still have a
good tone and the comfort of knowing my amp isn't set anywhere near 11.
For everything else, there's FOH.

I guess more to the point, I'm obsessed with how much I 'DON'T' have to turn
up.


--
keith c..
www.la11.net

[Nick Cassimatis]

Follow-up question. I have a passive bass - should I not have the volume at
max? Turning it down changes the tuning per my electric tuner (yeah, I
know, but I don't have the ear...), so I came to the conclusion it should be
turned up all the way. Should I turn it back down when I start to play, or
leave it up?

I also have an acoustic bass with a piezo pickup and active electronics.
Should I not have it turned up all the way? It sounds like crapola through
my combo amp (not saying much, as it's not much of an amp...), so is the
active signal too strong?

Maybe turning down on the acoustic would fix the problem of everything that
happens going out through the amp. I have an ankle that likes to crack, and
I get that sound through the amp if I'm holding the bass.

--
Nick Cassimatis

He who laughs last has a good backup!

[Todd H.]

"Nick Cassimatis" <nickpc0spam@nc.rr.com> writes:

> Follow-up question. I have a passive bass - should I not have the volume at
> max? Turning it down changes the tuning per my electric tuner

That's a screwy tuner.

> (yeah, I know, but I don't have the ear...), so I came to the
> conclusion it should be turned up all the way. Should I turn it
> back down when I start to play, or leave it up?

I like to run mine around, oh, 70% full volume. You know, so when you
need that extra little push over the cliff, you've got somewhere to go
without walking back to the amp.

> I also have an acoustic bass with a piezo pickup and active electronics.
> Should I not have it turned up all the way? It sounds like crapola through
> my combo amp (not saying much, as it's not much of an amp...), so is the
> active signal too strong?

Maybe.

> Maybe turning down on the acoustic would fix the problem of everything that
> happens going out through the amp. I have an ankle that likes to crack, and
> I get that sound through the amp if I'm holding the bass.

Neato.

You should adjust the volume of hte bass to where it sounds good. If
the active is causing distortion, and rolling back the volume fixes
it, go for it--roll back the volume.

Or engage the pad switch on the amp (active/passive switch) to do the
same thing.


--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | http://myspace.com/mytriplethreatband

[Benj]

Nick Cassimatis wrote:
> Follow-up question. I have a passive bass - should I not have the volume at
> max? Turning it down changes the tuning per my electric tuner (yeah, I
> know, but I don't have the ear...), so I came to the conclusion it should be
> turned up all the way. Should I turn it back down when I start to play, or
> leave it up?

I don't think a volume at max makes much sense. This is like having a
passive bass with no knobs on it at all! Generally I like to retain
some control over what I'm playing and I figure that basses come with
volume control for a reason! So I usually set the volume at about
75-80% of max and usually don't fool with it unless there comes a time
while playing I feel I MUST crank a bit more volume for some reason.

> I also have an acoustic bass with a piezo pickup and active electronics.
> Should I not have it turned up all the way? It sounds like crapola through
> my combo amp (not saying much, as it's not much of an amp...), so is the
> active signal too strong?
>
> Maybe turning down on the acoustic would fix the problem of everything that
> happens going out through the amp. I have an ankle that likes to crack, and
> I get that sound through the amp if I'm holding the bass.

Here's the deal that some bass players don't get. Your bass really has
THREE volume controls and setting them "best" often takes some skill.
First there is the volume knob on the bass. This sets the output level
of the bass: The voltage to the input to the amp. Next there usually
is an input volume level which sets the gain of the preamp. Note that
this is a bit different from the output volume of the bass. Increasing
the bass volume knob does NOT change the noise level in your signal.
However, often if the input volume knob is a gain control cranking it
up DOES increase the noise level in the signal. However, if you have
too much gain or the bass output voltage is too hot, you can drive the
input circuits into clipping! This is completely independent of the
max power capability of the amp itself! It's like the distorted
channel on a guitar amp. The distortion is set by how much you are
over-driving the input circuits. Finally there is the output volume
control which sets the input level to the amp power stages. Cranking
this volume control will drive the power section into clipping which
is really the first thing you want to clip. You should always try to
set the input gain levels so that the input stages don't clip at max
signal. You want to be sure that when the rig clips it's the power
amp doing it. This kind of setting makes sure that noise and hiss are
minimum and the amp can always output it's maximum power when you play
loud. Like I said getting all these volume levels right takes some
skill especially since there is usually no meters or lights to give
you a hint as to how levels are set at various points in the chain.
Sometimes you just have to play around with trial and error to decide
what volume combination gives minimum noise level without undesirable
clipping below max power output. The "sweet spot" isn't always easy to
find!

[Brian Running]

>> Follow-up question. I have a passive bass - should I not have the volume at
>> max? Turning it down changes the tuning per my electric tuner
>
> That's a screwy tuner.

Lots of tuners have a hard time finding the pitch unless the bass is
WFO. Now, if he means that it changes the pitch, then that really is a
screwy tuner.

[Brian Running]

> Follow-up question. I have a passive bass - should I not have the volume at
> max?

You should run it as close to max as you can, maybe saving yourself a
little "boost" room. The higher the output from your bass, the lower
the noise levels farther down the signal chain. Run it wide open!

[Todd H.]

Brian Running <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> writes:

> >> Follow-up question. I have a passive bass - should I not have the
> >> volume at max? Turning it down changes the tuning per my electric
> >> tuner
> > That's a screwy tuner.
>
> Lots of tuners have a hard time finding the pitch unless the bass is
> WFO. Now, if he means that it changes the pitch, then that really is
> a screwy tuner.

That's been my experience as well--either the tuner does or doesn't
find the pitch at a given volume. Never had one that changed pitch
with the volume control.

--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | http://myspace.com/mytriplethreatband

[Derek Tearne]

Nick Cassimatis <nickpc0spam@nc.rr.com> wrote:

> Follow-up question. I have a passive bass - should I not have the volume at
> max?

Yes. Definitely. Especially with a passive bass you want as much
signal as possible. With an active bass the output is already
pre-amplified, so you can run it at lower than max without losing any
tone, but I like to run it full anyway. I tried having the bass at 80%
so that I still had somewhere to go if I needed to get louder. So I'd
sound check with the level around 8 and all would be well. However, I
tend to swap basses a lot during a set, and I turn the volume down on
the bass that's not being used. Invariably when I swapped back I'd
never get back to exactly the same position - in fact I'd usually be
excited by then and forget I started out at 80% and would therefore play
thunderously loud for the rest of the set.

So, out of respect for the sound guy and the rest of the band I now
always sound check with the bass on full, and adjust the *master* volume
on the amp if I need to change the stage volume during a set.

I consider the volume control on the bass to be pretty much an on/off
switch with a soft transition rather than a click.

> I also have an acoustic bass with a piezo pickup and active electronics.
> Should I not have it turned up all the way? It sounds like crapola through
> my combo amp (not saying much, as it's not much of an amp...), so is the
> active signal too strong?

It may be. Your amp will have either active/passive inputs or a button
marked active/passive (or maybe -Xdb pad) - you will probably need to
use a different setting for the acoustic bass to the passive electric
bass.

> I have an ankle that likes to crack, and
> I get that sound through the amp if I'm holding the bass.

I think the only solution to that is 'ug boots' - or learn to affect a
pleasant clave pattern with your ankle thus adding an extra layer of
percussion.

--- Derek


--
Derek Tearne - derek@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/

[5 String]

Pt wrote:
> On May 7, 10:47 pm, Guitarmakermark <Guitarmakerm...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> So, again, I realize I'll prolly never have my basses turned up all
>> the way in real-life but I'd sure like to hear from you mugs, what are
>> the normal limits for an amp, and, is the above-described clipping
>> behavior "normal?" Reality check, please........
>
>
> If you keep clipping your amps you could be buying new speakers soon.
>
> Pt
>
hearing aids maybe as well......

--
> www.google.com <enter> <
> search<insert query here> <enter> <
> <
> avoiding newsgroup wiseasses.... PRICELESS. <
> <
> For some things there is usenet <
> For everything else there is google............. <

[Nick Cassimatis]

The tuner is a Korg CA-30, the least expensive electronic tuner I could
find. The "amp" is a 10 Watt Drive CD100B - the only switch on it is
labeled "On/Off." And no, there's not much difference between the two of
those.

Once someone here (I think JS) said, "No one buys a bass to sit and play by
themselves in their basement" (or something to that extent). Well, I'm that
one guy who does. Well, I'm not in my basement, but that's trivial - I have
little/no desire to play with a group, but I do like playing around on the
bass.

I do believe that for me to get much better (and maybe try out as a sub in
our church band, maybe not), I need some better equipment - especially the
combo amp. Any suggestions? I don't need to rattle the windows, I just
want something that will sound clean above 2 on the volume dial.

Of course, if I have a decent amp, then I can't blame it for me sounding
crappy...

--
Nick Cassimatis

He who laughs last has a good backup!

[Mike Rieves]

"Guitarmakermark" <Guitarmakermark@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178596043.397420.60290@p77g2000hsh.googlegro ups.com...
> Hi, Guys......
>
> Here I go again, with yet another question about what to expect from
> an amp at full volume....
>
> Actually, this post is more about the instrument set at full-blast,
> not the amp. You might recall, in an earlier post, I asked about my
> cabs farting at near-full volume. Someone in this group suggested, in
> reply, that it might be the amp, not the cabs which was causing the
> farts.
>
> Just for laughs, tonight I plugged my active bass into my G-K
> 1001RBII, and with the amp a low volume, turned up the volume on the
> instrument, full-bore. Sure enough, the amp was sounding distorted.
> Turning up the volume on the amp of course just amplified this
> distortion.

Sounds like you were overdriving the input section of the amp, that can
cause distortion without the outputs clipping.

> Then, for comparison, I plugged in my passive bass, and turned it up
> full blast. Again, the pre-amp clip was audible, but not as strongly
> as with the active bass.
>
> Interestingly, the pre-amp section's clip l.e.d. never once lit up.
> Not once, with either bass turned up all the way.

Again, it sounds like the amp's input was being overdriven, which will
sound like clipping even though the power amp is not clipping.

> Next, I tried the same experiment with my older SWR 2x10C combo amp.
> At the same relative settings, no clipping was heard. I did hear
> clipping with the pre-amp gain turned all the way up, however.
>
> So, again, I realize I'll prolly never have my basses turned up all
> the way in real-life but I'd sure like to hear from you mugs, what are
> the normal limits for an amp, and, is the above-described clipping
> behavior "normal?" Reality check, please........

I usually play with my bass volume wide open, I like the tone better that
way, but I'm recording and not using an amp.

> I'm considering trading up the 1001RBII for the 2001RBII, purely for
> the sake of increasing the headroom with the stronger unit. Not that,
> Gawd knows, I'd ever have a real need for such power. Don't ask me, I
> dunno, it's an obsessive-compulsive thang!!

Because the overdriven sound is popular, even sometimes on bass, amps
often have enough gain on the input section to overdrive the input section
of the power amp, allowing for an overdriven sound at virtually any volume.
I'm assuming the amp has has channel volume controls and a master volume or
gain control. If playing with your bass guitar volume wide open causes
distortion even when the channel volume is near minimum, then your bass is
overdriving the channel inputs. Otherwise, simply set the channel volume for
a nice clean sound and adjust the master volume for the output volume level
you want.

[Pt]

On May 7, 10:47 pm, Guitarmakermark <Guitarmakerm...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'm considering trading up the 1001RBII for the 2001RBII, purely for
> the sake of increasing the headroom with the stronger unit. Not that,
> Gawd knows, I'd ever have a real need for such power. Don't ask me, I
> dunno, it's an obsessive-compulsive thang!!
>
> Thanks, Guys,
>
> Mark


Contrary to others who play with their bass maxed out......
I like to have complete control over my tone and volume on stage.
To do this I set my bass volume in the middle, same with tone.
(Doesn't matter if it is passive or active.
Most newer bass amps have a passive and active input or a switch
Use the right input).
I then set my amp the way I want it.
Now I can turn my volume up or down and add/cut the tone if I want
without having to go back and screw around with amp settings.

Pt