New or used bass guitar?

[Paul Taylor]

I'm in the market for a bass guitar to learn, and being a
left-hander, the choice are somewhat limited... (I don't
want to learn right-handed, even though that makes for a
much better selection of instruments.)

Yesterday, I happened to be passing a local second hand store,
and spotted a lefty bass in the display case. It's a Warwick
Rockbass Corvette Special Edition which is basically sound,
but has seen better days with various dents, scuffs, scratches
and chips, particularly on the neck. One of the knobs (no grub
screw) has come apart and its cap needs to be reattached to the
insert on the potentiometer spindle, otherwise it just spins
without turning the pot. There are also several "rubber burns"
on the neck where it has been left sitting in a stand; these
might be able to be sanded back without damaging the wood.
The flamed top is okay, but lacks the "wow" factor of some;
the natural wood finish is still nicer than a paint job IMO.
It's also has a hard case (in the storeroom - details unknown.)

For the same price, I can get a new Washburn XB-120 in transparent
blue, or an Ibanez GSR-100L in black. Neither are exceptional
basses - but they do come with warranties and support. (I'd go
for the Washburn.)

Should I take a chance with the 2nd hand Warwick, or get a bland
- but safe - Washburn?

Thanks,

--

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Paul Taylor Veni, vidi, tici -
birder@ozemail.com.au I came, I saw, I ticked.

[ptooner]

"Paul Taylor" <birder@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:4639106c$0$17200$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> I'm in the market for a bass guitar to learn, and being a
> left-hander, the choice are somewhat limited... (I don't
> want to learn right-handed, even though that makes for a
> much better selection of instruments.)

Really makes me curious. Why not? If you play a conventional bass, your
left hand really does all the work. I mean your right hand you just pluck a
string - mostly with just one or two fingers. I would think it advantageous
to be natrually left handed. ??

Gerry

>
> Yesterday, I happened to be passing a local second hand store,
> and spotted a lefty bass in the display case. It's a Warwick
> Rockbass Corvette Special Edition which is basically sound,
> but has seen better days with various dents, scuffs, scratches
> and chips, particularly on the neck. One of the knobs (no grub
> screw) has come apart and its cap needs to be reattached to the
> insert on the potentiometer spindle, otherwise it just spins
> without turning the pot. There are also several "rubber burns"
> on the neck where it has been left sitting in a stand; these
> might be able to be sanded back without damaging the wood.
> The flamed top is okay, but lacks the "wow" factor of some;
> the natural wood finish is still nicer than a paint job IMO.
> It's also has a hard case (in the storeroom - details unknown.)
>
> For the same price, I can get a new Washburn XB-120 in transparent
> blue, or an Ibanez GSR-100L in black. Neither are exceptional
> basses - but they do come with warranties and support. (I'd go
> for the Washburn.)
>
> Should I take a chance with the 2nd hand Warwick, or get a bland
> - but safe - Washburn?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Paul Taylor Veni, vidi, tici -
> birder@ozemail.com.au I came, I saw, I ticked.

[Paul Taylor]

ptooner wrote:
> Really makes me curious. Why not?

I already have a left-handed guitar, so it's what I'm comfortable with.

> If you play a conventional bass, your
> left hand really does all the work. I mean your right hand you just pluck a
> string - mostly with just one or two fingers. I would think it advantageous
> to be natrually left handed. ??

If so, why do right-handers play "backwards"? :-) (I assume it goes
back to classical, Spanish guitar etc. where the plucking hand does
more work.)

--

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Paul Taylor Veni, vidi, tici -
birder@ozemail.com.au I came, I saw, I ticked.

[Les Cargill]

Paul Taylor wrote:

> ptooner wrote:
>
>> Really makes me curious. Why not?
>
>
> I already have a left-handed guitar, so it's what I'm comfortable with.
>
> > If you play a conventional bass, your
>
>> left hand really does all the work. I mean your right hand you just
>> pluck a string - mostly with just one or two fingers. I would think
>> it advantageous to be natrually left handed. ??
>
>
> If so, why do right-handers play "backwards"? :-) (I assume it goes
> back to classical, Spanish guitar etc. where the plucking hand does
> more work.)
>

The picking hand is harder to get right.

--
Les Cargill

[ptooner]

"Paul Taylor" <birder@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:46395986$0$17206$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> ptooner wrote:
>> Really makes me curious. Why not?
>
> I already have a left-handed guitar, so it's what I'm comfortable with.
>
> > If you play a conventional bass, your
>> left hand really does all the work. I mean your right hand you just
>> pluck a string - mostly with just one or two fingers. I would think it
>> advantageous to be natrually left handed. ??
>
> If so, why do right-handers play "backwards"? :-) (I assume it goes
> back to classical, Spanish guitar etc. where the plucking hand does
> more work.)

You may be right. I've often wondered also.
Gerry

>
> --
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Paul Taylor Veni, vidi, tici -
> birder@ozemail.com.au I came, I saw, I ticked.

[Derek Tearne]

Paul Taylor <birder@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> ptooner wrote:
> > Really makes me curious. Why not?
>
> I already have a left-handed guitar, so it's what I'm comfortable with.
>
> > If you play a conventional bass, your
> > left hand really does all the work. I mean your right hand you just pluck a
> > string - mostly with just one or two fingers. I would think it advantageous
> > to be natrually left handed. ??
>
> If so, why do right-handers play "backwards"? :-) (I assume it goes
> back to classical, Spanish guitar etc. where the plucking hand does
> more work.)

It goes back a long way before classical or spanish guitars. If you
trace the origins of the guitar family back through lutes to instruments
not dissimilar to the modern oud this was already set. Plucking,
especially with large unwieldy plectra, or bowing for viol/violin family
instruments, is by far the most difficult to get absolutely right both
in terms of hitting the correct string and getting the note in time.

If you give a guitar to someone who has never played one before, or even
considered how it is held, they will invariably try and play it with the
dominant hand striking the strings.

--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - derek@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/

[Benj]

Paul Taylor wrote:
> I'm in the market for a bass guitar to learn, and being a

Since everyone has wondered off into the left-hand, right-hand thing,
I'll give some advice on buying used. First you should be a pretty
good judge of bass to do this and you also need to understand you own
abilities when it comes to bass-teching. Generally speaking, if you
have no fix-it abilities and have to pay for all repairs, my advice it
to buy new unless the bass is totally exceptional tone and playability
wise. As a general rule used basses are priced such that if you spend
the money to have someone restore it back to reasonable playability
the cost will be about what you'd put into a new one.

So you have to therefore start figuring what YOU can live with and
what YOU can accomplish on your own. I love a like-new looking used
bass, but really with players paying huge sums just to have a beat to
crap bass like "Jaco's" shows you that there is something to be said
for an instrument having "personality" So if you can live with dings
and other marks, then you've just saved the refinishing costs which
would be considerable! next you have to separate the minor easy
repairs from the major ones. Worn out frets is going to cost you some
bread to fix, but bad wiring/pots/knobs/setup/ tuners/bridges/ and
similar things are cheap to do yourself if you have any mechanical
skills at all. Bad tone or playing feel usually CANNOT be fixed at
all! It's in the wood parts and to fix the problem you have to
replace major wood which is like replacing the whole bass. Hence
ALWAYS judge FIRST on TONE and PLAYABILITY!

Here's a typical story. I find a nice used high-mileage Ken Smith,
dirt cheap. Frets REALLY worn so bad it buzzes like a mother! But
neck is nice, Tone is wonderful (except for buzzy notes) finish has
got lots of marks and dings. Pickups have paint missing and look like
the bass was dragged behind a pickup truck on a chain. Tuners were
worn so badly they hardly worked! So what to do? Since first it's a
VERY expensive bass new, and second the tone is great, and third the
playability except for the bad frets led me to believe that there were
no problems once the frets were fixed I bought it.

I tore it all apart to start out. Fixed wiring and got new knobs and
new set of (Carvin) tuners. Did a complete cleaning and rub-sown of
neck and body. A lot of the marks and dings came off with the
cleaning (lemon oil, Dow bathroom cleaner etc.) Amazingly although a
few dings remained it looked so good I decided to forget about
refinishing. LOTS of cash saved. Next got of those sanding sponge
things and sanded pickups and sprayed them flat black. Yeah names were
now gone but otherwise looked like new. Finally hauled it to a luthier
to get the frets fixed. The luthier told me that the frets could be
leveled this time but next time I'd have to have it refretted. Fret
leveling cost about $100. Put it all back together and polished it all
up tweeked it in to a setup that suited me and Voila! One absolute
KILLER bass that would normally cost a fortune! After a couple of
years the frets still show no wear. (Used compressed strings to
minimize fret chew).

So used can be great. But I've also seen lots of used basses that were
being sold for a REASON! Nasty tone, nasty playability, twisted necks.
bad construction and other problems that would cost more to fix than a
new bass. So choose wisely grasshopper!

[Paul Taylor]

Benj wrote:
[snip]
> So used can be great. But I've also seen lots of used basses that were
> being sold for a REASON! Nasty tone, nasty playability, twisted necks.
> bad construction and other problems that would cost more to fix than a
> new bass. So choose wisely grasshopper!

Thanks for the very detailed response!

The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of the second hand
bass. The price is less than half what it would cost new, which makes
me suspicious; it's a pity it wasn't looked after better.

--

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Paul Taylor Veni, vidi, tici -
birder@ozemail.com.au I came, I saw, I ticked.

[Brian Running]

> Yesterday, I happened to be passing a local second hand store,
> and spotted a lefty bass in the display case. It's a Warwick
> Rockbass Corvette Special Edition which is basically sound,
> but has seen better days with various dents, scuffs, scratches
> and chips, particularly on the neck. One of the knobs (no grub
> screw) has come apart and its cap needs to be reattached to the
> insert on the potentiometer spindle, otherwise it just spins
> without turning the pot. There are also several "rubber burns"
> on the neck where it has been left sitting in a stand; these
> might be able to be sanded back without damaging the wood.
> The flamed top is okay, but lacks the "wow" factor of some;
> the natural wood finish is still nicer than a paint job IMO.
> It's also has a hard case (in the storeroom - details unknown.)

I've never owned any of the basses you've mentioned, but I've checked
them out and played them in stores. I think the Rock Bass is probably
the best of the bunch, when brand-new. Sounds like the one you're
looking at has been ridden hard and put away wet more than once. It
would have to be a pretty good deal before I'd consider it -- but the
thing about basses is, if there is a big-time defect, a real
deal-killing problem with the bass, it's probably going to be evident on
inspection. Beating up a bass and treating it badly probably will not
cause latent problems, the kind that will only become obvious a couple
of years down the road. If it's mechanically sound now, then it's
probably already seen the worst it's ever going to see. Have the bass
looked over by a reputable luthier or guitar technician. I'd also
measure the stock pickups and see if they are a standard size that can
be replaced easily with aftermarket pickups. I had a Washburn years ago
that was a nice bass with awful electronics, and I would have kept it,
but the pickups were a unique size that no aftermarket manufacturer
matched. It wouldn't have been worth the work to make new pickups fit,
so I traded it in. See if that will be a problem with the Rock Bass.
In spite of all their many flaws, one of the beautiful things about
cheap Fenders is that there are about a zillion aftermarket parts that
you can easily swap in and make a nice custom bass -- the small-block
Chevy of basses. That's a big part of value for the dollar, in my opinion.

[ptooner]

"Derek Tearne" <derek@url.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1hxjta3.1my6mpo14ql2qaN%derek@url.co.nz...
> Paul Taylor <birder@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>> ptooner wrote:
>> > Really makes me curious. Why not?
>>
>> I already have a left-handed guitar, so it's what I'm comfortable with.
>>
>> > If you play a conventional bass, your
>> > left hand really does all the work. I mean your right hand you just
>> > pluck a
>> > string - mostly with just one or two fingers. I would think it
>> > advantageous
>> > to be natrually left handed. ??
>>
>> If so, why do right-handers play "backwards"? :-) (I assume it goes
>> back to classical, Spanish guitar etc. where the plucking hand does
>> more work.)
>
> It goes back a long way before classical or spanish guitars. If you
> trace the origins of the guitar family back through lutes to instruments
> not dissimilar to the modern oud this was already set. Plucking,
> especially with large unwieldy plectra, or bowing for viol/violin family
> instruments, is by far the most difficult to get absolutely right both
> in terms of hitting the correct string and getting the note in time.

That's very interesting and has a ring of truth to it.

>
> If you give a guitar to someone who has never played one before, or even
> considered how it is held, they will invariably try and play it with the
> dominant hand striking the strings.

I have not found that to be the case.

Gerry
>
> --- Derek
> --
> Derek Tearne - derek@url.co.nz
> Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
> http://www.manyhands.co.nz/
>

[Brian Running]

> Plucking, especially with large unwieldy plectra, or bowing for viol/violin family
> instruments, is by far the most difficult to get absolutely right both
> in terms of hitting the correct string and getting the note in time.

That's questionable, but assuming it's true, it doesn't explain the use
of the right hand versus the left.

> If you give a guitar to someone who has never played one before, or even
> considered how it is held, they will invariably try and play it with the
> dominant hand striking the strings.

That's definitely not true, and I know that from personal experience.
My own kids, for instance, did not favor one side or the other, and
tried it both ways before finally asking what to do.

[Mike Rieves]

"ptooner" <someguy@onthe.net> wrote in message
news:nHb_h.17631$Pq5.6530@bignews6.bellsouth.net.. .
>
> "Paul Taylor" <birder@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4639106c$0$17200$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> I'm in the market for a bass guitar to learn, and being a
>> left-hander, the choice are somewhat limited... (I don't
>> want to learn right-handed, even though that makes for a
>> much better selection of instruments.)

I have a friend who is left-handed, but when he started out, he bought a
right handed guitar because he couldn't find a left hander he could afford.
He learned to play right handed and he is one the best guitar players I know
from a technical standpoint. He's very fast and very smooth, but how much is
natural talent and how much is learning the "wrong way", I don't know.

[Paul Taylor]

Brian Running wrote:
> I had a Washburn years ago that was a nice bass with awful electronics,
> and I would have kept it, but the pickups were a unique size that no
> aftermarket manufacturer matched. It wouldn't have been worth the work
> to make new pickups fit, so I traded it in.

I think Bertolini make pickups to suit Washburns ("soap bar"), but I'm
waiting to hear back on what size pups are on the XB120.

The Rockbass looked like it had two J-style pickups, but I didn't
measure them. The more I think about it, the more annoyed I am at the
was the Rockbass was treated; even if I had it restored, there's always
that nagging doubt that one day it might turn around and bite you.

> In spite of all their many flaws, one of the beautiful things about cheap
> Fenders is that there are about a zillion aftermarket parts that you can
> easily swap in and make a nice custom bass -- the small-block Chevy of
> basses. That's a big part of value for the dollar, in my opinion.

"Cheap Fenders"? Two words you don't often see in the same sentence...
;-) A$549 seems to be the magic number here: Washburn XB120,
Ibanez GSR100L, Squire Precision, ESP LB 50 (the last two aren't local.)
A$550 for the knocked about Rockbass. Fenders are at least double that.
If I get serious about playing, I'd buy a better bass; at the moment, a
basic - but solid - bass will do.

--

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Paul Taylor Veni, vidi, tici -
birder@ozemail.com.au I came, I saw, I ticked.

[ptooner]

"Paul Taylor" <birder@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:463bc04e$0$17247$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Brian Running wrote:
>> I had a Washburn years ago that was a nice bass with awful electronics,
> > and I would have kept it, but the pickups were a unique size that no
> > aftermarket manufacturer matched. It wouldn't have been worth the work
> > to make new pickups fit, so I traded it in.
>
> I think Bertolini make pickups to suit Washburns ("soap bar"), but I'm
> waiting to hear back on what size pups are on the XB120.
>
> The Rockbass looked like it had two J-style pickups, but I didn't
> measure them. The more I think about it, the more annoyed I am at the
> was the Rockbass was treated; even if I had it restored, there's always
> that nagging doubt that one day it might turn around and bite you.
>
>> In spite of all their many flaws, one of the beautiful things about cheap
>> Fenders is that there are about a zillion aftermarket parts that you can
>> easily swap in and make a nice custom bass -- the small-block Chevy of
>> basses. That's a big part of value for the dollar, in my opinion.
>
> "Cheap Fenders"? Two words you don't often see in the same sentence...
> ;-) A$549 seems to be the magic number here: Washburn XB120,
> Ibanez GSR100L, Squire Precision, ESP LB 50 (the last two aren't local.)
> A$550 for the knocked about Rockbass. Fenders are at least double that.
> If I get serious about playing, I'd buy a better bass; at the moment, a
> basic - but solid - bass will do.

Near me there is a Mexican Jazz 91 model that is so new it still has the
cellophane on the pickguard for $399. There's also a somewhat beatup 91
American Prodigy active fender that's been around the block but plays pretty
good.

Gerry
>
> --
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Paul Taylor Veni, vidi, tici -
> birder@ozemail.com.au I came, I saw, I ticked.

[Glen]

Mike Rieves wrote:
> "ptooner" <someguy@onthe.net> wrote in message
> news:nHb_h.17631$Pq5.6530@bignews6.bellsouth.net.. .
>> "Paul Taylor" <birder@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:4639106c$0$17200$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>>> I'm in the market for a bass guitar to learn, and being a
>>> left-hander, the choice are somewhat limited... (I don't
>>> want to learn right-handed, even though that makes for a
>>> much better selection of instruments.)
>
> I have a friend who is left-handed, but when he started out, he bought a
> right handed guitar because he couldn't find a left hander he could afford.
> He learned to play right handed and he is one the best guitar players I know
> from a technical standpoint. He's very fast and very smooth, but how much is
> natural talent and how much is learning the "wrong way", I don't know.
>
>
I have a guitarist friend who played right-handed fantastically until he
cut off two fingers on a table saw. He now plays lefty pretty well.

Glen

[ptooner]

>> I have a friend who is left-handed, but when he started out, he bought
>> a right handed guitar because he couldn't find a left hander he could
>> afford. He learned to play right handed and he is one the best guitar
>> players I know from a technical standpoint. He's very fast and very
>> smooth, but how much is natural talent and how much is learning the
>> "wrong way", I don't know.
> I have a guitarist friend who played right-handed fantastically until he
> cut off two fingers on a table saw. He now plays lefty pretty well.
>
> Glen
Which hand was injured?
Gerry

[Glen]

ptooner wrote:
>>> I have a friend who is left-handed, but when he started out, he bought
>>> a right handed guitar because he couldn't find a left hander he could
>>> afford. He learned to play right handed and he is one the best guitar
>>> players I know from a technical standpoint. He's very fast and very
>>> smooth, but how much is natural talent and how much is learning the
>>> "wrong way", I don't know.
>> I have a guitarist friend who played right-handed fantastically until he
>> cut off two fingers on a table saw. He now plays lefty pretty well.
>>
>> Glen
> Which hand was injured?
> Gerry
>
>
His left (fretting) hand. Pointer finger lost about 1.5 inches, middle
finger a bit less than an inch.

Glen

[Paul Taylor]

I ended up buying the Washburn XB-120, which I'm very pleased with.
(The battered Warwick would have driven me to despair just by looking
at it; the Ibanez would have frustrated due to the limitation of its
single P pickup and hidden wood grain finish. :) )

I'll probably replace the factory strings with either flat-wound or
nickel-wound strings in due course. I assume that your typical factory
strings are "light" gauge?

--

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Paul Taylor Veni, vidi, tici -
birder@ozemail.com.au I came, I saw, I ticked.

[Brian Running]

> I'll probably replace the factory strings with either flat-wound or
> nickel-wound strings in due course. I assume that your typical factory
> strings are "light" gauge?

They're usually medium, .045-.105 is pretty standard. Light gauge is
..040, or even smaller, and heavy is usually .050.

[Javier]

Paul Taylor <birder@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> I'll probably replace the factory strings with either flat-wound or
> nickel-wound strings in due course. I assume that your typical factory
> strings are "light" gauge?
>

I'd say they are the "standard" gauge: 45 65 85 105