Fastest Stock Muscle Car

[The Hammer]

Not counting COPO's, Yenkos, Baldwin-Motion etc what do you think was the fastest American car made between 1964-1974?

My entry

1969 Corvette with the L-88 427 ci V-8

http://corvettefever.com/featuredvehicles/p36024_large+1969_Chevrolet_Corvette_L88+Driver_Si de.jpg

[basshunter]

I was at the gas station Saturday and this guy, maybe 70 years old, drove up in a dead mint '68 'Vette. Said he bought it new. :thumbsup:

[NotFSI]

This one, I would have thought

http://www.caradisiac.com/media/images/le_mag/mag230/mans-ac-cobra-427-big.jpg

(It's got an American engine, does that count?)

[The Hammer]

This one, I would have thought

http://www.caradisiac.com/media/images/le_mag/mag230/mans-ac-cobra-427-big.jpg

(It's got an American engine, does that count?)

Actually one of these 427 SC but I don't know if the Shelbys count as a true "production" car like a GTO or Camaro would. But great post none the less :thu:

http://cars.bayaw.com/pictures/1967-Shelby-Cobra-427-1.jpg

[cdb]

I vote for this:

http://www.classicmotorsports.net/images/corvair/corvair0120ocala2.jpg

[allan]

If the Cobra doesn't count then the ZL-1 doesn't either as Chevrolet only built two ZL-1s and there are a heck of a lot more than two 427 Cobras :)

My vote? 427 Cobra first, L88 second.

ps - GM built 69 ZL-1 Camaros but only two Corvettes ;)

[Les Izzmor]

The racing stripes are what made this car super fast.

http://www.graphic-express.com/images_mopar_restoration/1971-1972%20Gremlin%20X%20Stripe%20Kit.jpg

[The Hammer]

If the Cobra doesn't count then the ZL-1 doesn't either as Chevrolet only built two ZL-1s and there are a heck of a lot more than two 427 Cobras :)

My vote? 427 Cobra first, L88 second.

ps - GM built 69 ZL-1 Camaros but only two Corvettes ;)

my bad!!! The ZL-1 was the aluminum heads wasn't it? I meant the L88 427. Bad Hammer no Cookie!

[MBIYF]

http://www.motorimania.net/auto_navigatori/renault_r5_turbo/images/r5_turbo.jpg

ME WANTS IT!

[The Hammer]

not an American muscle car but since we have the 427 Cobra up I thought I'd post the 1971 Ferrari Daytona Spyder

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/9038/mm3936zz0.jpg

[allan]

my bad!!! The ZL-1 was the aluminum heads wasn't it? I meant the L88 427. Bad Hammer no Cookie!

ZL-1 was all aluminum. Well, the whirly bits and the parts that go up and down weren't but the block and heads were ;)

I think the new stuff (particularly yours) is about as fast and infinitely more drivable, since it weighs about the same and horsepower is about equal.

The aluminum head 427s were the L88 and L89 - depending on whether you wanted four barrels or six :)

This should help -

1966-1969 L36 4-barrel 390 hp
1966-1966 L72 4-barrel + solid-lifters 425 hp
1967-1969 L68 3x2-barrel 400 hp
1967-1969 L71 3x2-barrel + solid-lifters 435 hp
1967-1969 L89 L71 + aluminum heads 435 hp
1967-1969 L88 L72 + aluminum heads 430 hp
1969-1969 ZL1 All aluminum engine with open chamber heads 430 hp
1970-1972 LS5 454 ci - 390 hp
1970-1971 LS6 454ci - 450 hp (425 hp in 1971)

After 1971 they did the LS5 for one more year and then discontinued big blocks :(

[MBIYF]

Another European cool muscley car.

http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/bilder/Bildgalleri/Manta_galleri4.jpg

[knuckle_head]

Another European cool muscley car.

http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/bilder/Bildgalleri/Manta_galleri4.jpg

3.0 CSI? I almost came by one of those back when I bought cars - haven't owned one since 1983.

Doin' my part...

[lug]

link to lot-o 0-60 times in the past.

http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html

Hammer's new ride?

2006 Chevrolet Corvette ZO6 0-60 3.5 --- 1/4 mile 11.5 (MT Oct '05)


BASTAGE! :mad:

[fretless]

Plymouth Super Bird

[ezstep]

http://www.moparsunlimitedofidaho.com/images/member_cars/70_rr_getty.jpg

My oldest brother had one just like this - yellow, glare-free hood, 383 magnum engine.

I would have guessed the RR 426 Hemi, 5.1 from 0-60 and 13.5 in 1/4 mile, but there is also a coolness factor that doesn't carry over to the speed factor.
;)

[allan]

I would have guessed the RR 426 Hemi, 5.1 from 0-60 and 13.5 in 1/4 mile, but there is also a coolness factor that doesn't carry over to the speed factor.
;)

Interesting hemi trivia. Chargers, Challengers and Road Runners are faster than Barracudas even though the Barracuda is a lighter car. Know why?

Glad you asked :)

Hood clearance. Stuffing big engines into tiny cars the intake manifold on hemi Cudas strangles the engine. The intake manifold on the B body cars is much taller.

[brake]

http://www.futureclassicsnj.com/Cars/blkchevdsfrt454.JPG

[Seethroughsouls]

http://www.riekmann.prohosting.com/verkauf2/pontiac_trans_am_se_1979_schwarz_r.jpg

http://www.spencer1984.com/image/m207a.jpg



http://www.bandittransamclub.com/Bandit%201%20movie%20small.jpg

[fretless]

um so what do I win ... :P :D :rolleyes: :right:

[mnemosyne's lobotomy]

Actually one of these 427 SC but I don't know if the Shelbys count as a true "production" car like a GTO or Camaro would. But great post none the less :thu:

http://cars.bayaw.com/pictures/1967-Shelby-Cobra-427-1.jpg

best looking car, ever.

[Rand262]

Does this qualify?732

[L. Ron Hoover]

The '68 Charger R/T Hemi must be one of the fastest ones, in a straight line anyway.... According to the list Lug posted, Car and Driver recorded 4.8s 0-60, and 13.5s in the 1/4. By far my favorite muscle car.

Though, given a choice, I'd take an M3 or 911 over any of the muscle cars. I've driven an M3 and it was silly fast and well balanced.

:D

[NotFSI]

link to lot-o 0-60 times in the past.

http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html

Hammer's new ride?

2006 Chevrolet Corvette ZO6 0-60 3.5 --- 1/4 mile 11.5 (MT Oct '05)


BASTAGE! :mad:

http://www.damox.com/cars/thumbs/Ultima/Ultima_GTR_orange.jpg

* Fastest 0-60 time: 2.6 seconds
* Fastest 0-100 time: 5.3 seconds
* Fastest 100-0 time: 3.6 seconds
* Fastest 0-100-0 time: 9.4 seconds
* Best performance on a skidpad: 1.176g lateral grip in a 200 ft circle.
* Fastest road car over the 1/4 mile: 9.9 seconds

:eek:

[lug]

I owned one of these
http://www.vicarimotorsports.com/67RT12.jpg
1967 Dodge Coronet R/T (440)

and one of these
http://www.chooseyouritem.com/classics/photos/75500/75741.1972.Chevrolet.Chevelle.Super.Sport.2-Door.Hardtop.454.jpg
1972 Chevelle Supersport

[King Kashue]

The '68 Charger R/T Hemi must be one of the fastest ones, in a straight line anyway.... According to the list Lug posted, Car and Driver recorded 4.8s 0-60, and 13.5s in the 1/4. By far my favorite muscle car.

I would have guessed the RR 426 Hemi, 5.1 from 0-60 and 13.5 in 1/4 mile, but there is also a coolness factor that doesn't carry over to the speed factor.
;)

If we expand the starting date by one year, the 1963 Pontiac Catalina 2+2 went 0-60 in 3.9 sec...:D


And it had the advantage of not being a Ford or Mopar... ;)

[King Kashue]

http://www.damox.com/cars/thumbs/Ultima/Ultima_GTR_orange.jpg

* Fastest 0-60 time: 2.6 seconds
* Fastest 0-100 time: 5.3 seconds
* Fastest 100-0 time: 3.6 seconds
* Fastest 0-100-0 time: 9.4 seconds
* Best performance on a skidpad: 1.176g lateral grip in a 200 ft circle.
* Fastest road car over the 1/4 mile: 9.9 seconds

:eek:

But it looks like it's from the fucking Jetsons...

[NotFSI]

But it looks like it's from the fucking Jetsons...

Leicestershire, actually...

[The Hammer]

But it looks like it's from the fucking Jetsons...

Hmmm not really an American Muscle car though.....:D

[The Hammer]

best looking car, ever.

I completely agree with the Ferrari Daytona Spyder a close second which is why the movie "The Gumball Rally" is one of my favorites.

My wife wants an old muscle car convertible for her birthday in 2008 and I am very tempted to buy her a 427 replica from Superformance (although she wants a '69 Camaro):)

[fretless]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/freebass/800px-RichardPettyRoadrunner.jpg
:cool:

[The Hammer]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/freebass/800px-RichardPettyRoadrunner.jpg
:cool:

When I was a kid there was a used car lot on Dickerson road in Nashville that was actually the dumping lot for the trade ins at the big Plymoth/Dodge dealership in town that had 2 Superbirds on its lot for years. My dad once asked them what they wanted for them and at the time (probably about 1973-74) they wanted about $5000. They were both new but the Dodge dealership could never sell them so off to the used lot they went. I can only imagine how much they would be worth now:eek:

[fretless]

I remember going to FL from MD every year as a kid , and going through all the southern states was lot after lot of Muscle cars , could all still be there :cool: ;)

then there was the 70's

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fdic.gov/about/learn/learning/images/1970s_gasLines.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fdic.gov/about/learn/learning/when/1970s.html&h=112&w=125&sz=13&hl=en&start=2&sig2=pK64u7bmH9L2-LD_aTk04w&um=1&tbnid=HmpqjTHiC_5N-M:&tbnh=81&tbnw=90&ei=ufstRoOXFKGOggOwpbi8Cw&prev=/images%3Fq%3D1970%2527s%2Bgas%2B%2Blines%26svnum%3 D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3De n%26sa%3DG

[The Hammer]

I remember going to FL from MD every year as a kid , and going through all the southern states was lot after lot of Muscle cars , could all still be there :cool: ;)

then there was the 70's

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fdic.gov/about/learn/learning/images/1970s_gasLines.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fdic.gov/about/learn/learning/when/1970s.html&h=112&w=125&sz=13&hl=en&start=2&sig2=pK64u7bmH9L2-LD_aTk04w&um=1&tbnid=HmpqjTHiC_5N-M:&tbnh=81&tbnw=90&ei=ufstRoOXFKGOggOwpbi8Cw&prev=/images%3Fq%3D1970%2527s%2Bgas%2B%2Blines%26svnum%3 D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3De n%26sa%3DG

yeah I lived in Nashville from 1966 to 1984. Around 1975-75 all of the car lots suddenly filled up with all of the cool cars from the 60's. My dad loved looking at them so we would go from one lot to the next checking out the cars. Probably why I have such a big car jones these days:)

[allan]

And it had the advantage of not being a Ford or Mopar... ;)

Yes, it did :)

I've been a little skeptical of that 3.9 second record for quite awhile - the thing I've never been able to figure out is exactly how they did it with a heavy but overpowered car with (relatively) skinny bias-ply tires. With slicks I'd believe it but with stock tires I don't see how they could pull it off. 5.5 or 6 seconds I'd believe ;)

[The Hammer]

Yes, it did :)

I've been a little skeptical of that 3.9 second record for quite awhile - the thing I've never been able to figure out is exactly how they did it with a heavy but overpowered car with (relatively) skinny bias-ply tires. With slicks I'd believe it but with stock tires I don't see how they could pull it off. 5.5 or 6 seconds I'd believe ;)

I would love to see what some of the old Muscle cars would do on todays rubber. My 427 is hell when I punch it with 19" on the back. I can't imagine what the old 427's were like on bia-plys back in the day:eek:

[allan]

I can't imagine what the old 427's were like on bia-plys back in the day:eek:

They were dangerous as hell ;)

My old '64 Riviera (425 ci - 340 hp stock but had a a slightly retarded cam, recurved distributor, electronic ignition and Holley 850) - I figured an honest 400 hp) would just sit there and fry the tires if that's what you wanted to do. Stock 0-60 with skinny bias-ply tires was 8 seconds flat. Best I ever did was 6.6 with the rear tires deflated to 12 psi (a trick I wouldn't try today) but it still wasn't bad for a 4600 pound car.

[NotFSI]

although she wants a '69

The saucy wench!!!

[knuckle_head]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/freebass/800px-RichardPettyRoadrunner.jpg
:cool:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/03/06/212551.1-lg.jpg
:cool:

[Jugghaid]

Heres' the list I go by..........

http://www.musclecargarage.com/50fastestmusclecars.html


And Hammer, I'll let you know how the Superformance Cobras are. I'm ordering mine in july. ;)

with one of these 2 motors:

Roush 402IR (500HP/500 ftlbs)
http://www.roushperformance.com/engine_closeups/402IR_stacked_400.jpg

or the Roush 427R (550HP/535 ftlbs)
http://www.roushperformance.com/engine_closeups/427R.jpg


The 427 is more correct for the car and has a little more juice, but the fuel injection system on the IR series is BAD ASS!!!

[allan]

Heres' the list I go by..........

http://www.musclecargarage.com/50fastestmusclecars.html

Interesting. Looking at the top two the Cobra's higher trap speed tells us it's actually faster than the Viper but harder to launch ;)

[Jugghaid]

1969 Corvette with the L-88 427 ci V-8

http://corvettefever.com/featuredvehicles/p36024_large+1969_Chevrolet_Corvette_L88+Driver_Si de.jpg

# 20 on my list

[Jugghaid]

Interesting. Looking at the top two the Cobra's higher trap speed tells us it's actually faster than the Viper but harder to launch ;)

Yeah, they were scary fast. They also held the 0-60 and 0-100-0 record for a long time. I thinnk the Caterham Super 7 finaly broke that record in the 90's.

They're both (Viper and Cobra) Carrol Shelby designs though, so all is good. :)

[philthygeezer]

My dad was a mechanic in the musclecar era. Said that the scariest thing he ever drove was a Dodge Dart with a 340 wedge in it. I guess that car weighed around 2000 pounds.

[Jugghaid]

My dad was a mechanic in the musclecar era. Said that the scariest thing he ever drove was a Dodge Dart with a 340 wedge in it. I guess that car weighed around 2000 pounds.

They actually made a few of those with the 426 ramcharger (predecessor to the Hemi) as well. I almost snagged one for $500 back in the early 80's but some ass beat me to it. :(

[NotFSI]

I dunno whether or not it's the fastest but I'm quite liking the look of this one

http://www.phoenixgraphix.com/gm/7072gsx.jpg

[allan]

Yeah, they were scary fast. They also held the 0-60 and 0-100-0 record for a long time. I thinnk the Caterham Super 7 finaly broke that record in the 90's:

Read something on teh intrawebs yesterday where I guy was writing about his own Cobra - he thinks he's the only big block original owner left.

Anyway, his is a '67 and he said Uncle Carroll ran out of 427s that year so his has a 428 Police Interceptor motor in it. Also said that the way they were geared out of the factory they wouldn't see much more than 150 mph. Not sure I'd wanna go faster than that in a car that short anyway ;)

[NotFSI]

Hmmm not really an American Muscle car though.....:D

it's got an american engine :thumbsup:

[bill]

My dad was a mechanic in the musclecar era. Said that the scariest thing he ever drove was a Dodge Dart with a 340 wedge in it. I guess that car weighed around 2000 pounds.

I use to have a dart, I don't recall the motor that was in it. what a POS, the shocks that mounted to the rear frame rusted though the floor of trunk. It would lay rubber for a long ways, but what a piece:badidea:

[Jugghaid]

Read something on teh intrawebs yesterday where I guy was writing about his own Cobra - he thinks he's the only big block original owner left.

Anyway, his is a '67 and he said Uncle Carroll ran out of 427s that year so his has a 428 Police Interceptor motor in it. Also said that the way they were geared out of the factory they wouldn't see much more than 150 mph. Not sure I'd wanna go faster than that in a car that short anyway ;)

Carroll wrecked a few of them over the years racing. :)

Never heard of Shelby running out of motors though......... ;)

[brake]

My mom had a '70s Jag with the V12.... Personally, I wouldn't want to drive a tiny tin can with a V12 under the hood, but ymmv.

[Jugghaid]

My mom had a '70s Jag with the V12.... Personally, I wouldn't want to drive a tiny tin can with a V12 under the hood, but ymmv.

Those are really sweet cars, but not fast on this level. I think they only put out about 200HP or so.

But they are so Classy looking.

[allan]

Never heard of Shelby running out of motors though......... ;)

Let me see if I can find the link. It was a good read.

[allan]

Ah. Here it is.

http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/CSX3282.shtml

[Jugghaid]

Ah. Here it is.

http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/CSX3282.shtml

Interesting. with some things he really seems to know his stuff, and other times, he seems completely clueless. :D

The engine code is correct for that year and it's a proper 3000 series # too.....

I'll check my cobra book when I get home and check on that 428 vs. 427 thing.

[NotFSI]

My mom had a '70s Jag with the V12.... Personally, I wouldn't want to drive a tiny tin can with a V12 under the hood, but ymmv.

When my parents first met, my dad had one of these

http://www.heritageclassics.com/jaguar/69etypeyel2/A.jpg

It's probably quite safe to say that I owe my existence to that car

[Jugghaid]

Yup. E types are very very cool cars. Their value has really gone up in the last few years too.

[allan]

Yup. E types are very very cool cars. Their value has really gone up in the last few years too.

That's because finding one that actually runs is getting difficult :D

[King Kashue]

Yup. E types are very very cool cars. Their value has really gone up in the last few years too.

Some folks I know in San Diego (friends of a friend), the Guy had 11 XKEs (convertibles and coupes), and decided one day he had too many and sold six of them and bought a new Ferrari...

Yeah, they're rich to a degree I can't really comprehend :D

[Jugghaid]

I'll check my cobra book when I get home and check on that 428 vs. 427 thing.

Yup, in fact there were quite a few CSX3 series cars that left the factory with a 428 motor. Didn't know that...........

[Jugghaid]

Some folks I know in San Diego (friends of a friend), the Guy had 11 XKEs (convertibles and coupes), and decided one day he had too many and sold six of them and bought a new Ferrari...

Yeah, they're rich to a degree I can't really comprehend :D

I could sell an original Shelby 427 S/C cobra and buy 4 or 5 new Ferarris. :)

Unfortunately, I don't own one. :(

If I did, it would be this one:

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/carlist/cardetails.asp?In_AuctionID=221&In_LotNumber=1301

Brought $5 million at Scottsdale this year. A lot of that is due to its history though..........

This one brought $850K though and I've seen many go for well over a million.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/carlist/cardetails.asp?In_AuctionID=221&In_LotNumber=1310


Not bad for a $6000 car......... ;)

[Jugghaid]

Keep in mind however, the all-time greatest street motor was made by ford in '64 and '65. It's the 427 SOHC (single over head cam) version of the side-oiler FE. They dropped a few in galaxies (called cammers) and would kill anything on the street. Nothing even close.

Here's some specs on them:

All these engines were essentially hand-built, with racing in mind. Combustion chambers were fully machined to reduce variability. Nevertheless, Ford recommended blueprinting the engines before use in racing applications. They were rated at 615 hp (458 kW) at 7,000 rpm with a single four-barrel carburetor, and 657 hp (490 kW) at 7,500 rpm with dual four barrel carburetors. Ford sold them via the parts counter, the single four-barrel model as part C6AE-6007-363S, the dual carburetor model as part C6AE-6007-359J for $2350.00 (as of October, 1968). Weight of the engine was 680 lb (308 kg).



Yup, that's over 200HP more than the hemi, and NASCAR banned the engine.

Find one and you're a rich man. I remember reading somewhere that over 1/2 the people who bought cammers did not live to make the last payment on their car. Lots of people also bought the engines and put them in other fords as well, like cobras


http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1459605

[Jugghaid]

So, in all reality....this:

http://www.musclecarcalendar.com/62Galaxy88.jpg

is the fastest musclecar ever made. a 1962 Ford Galaxie XL 500:eek:

Here's a 63:

http://mustangandfords.com/featuredvehicles/mufp_0508_3z+1963_Ford_Galaxie_Lightweight+Front_P assenger_Side.jpg

[King Kashue]

Calling the Cammer a "production" engine pretty much makes the term meaningless :D

The put them in around 50 cars.

[allan]

I could sell an original Shelby 427 S/C cobra and buy 4 or 5 new Ferarris. :)

My only Cobra story -

Couple years back I'm in Chelsea, Michigan (just this side of Ann Arbor and home of Jiffy cake mix - if you're a yankee and have ever eaten cornbread you've had it). Anyway, my favorite restaurant in the whole world is called the Common Grill and is in Chelsea.

Had a nice lunch. Leave restaurant and see beautiful red 427 S/C kit car parked in front. Nice car. The guy must of been a Cobra nut since this car even has correct 427 S/C badges on the fenders. I figure anybody with money can have a kit car built. Pretty, but not real impressive.

I walk away. Get about half a block down the street and decide to take one more look, so I turn around and almost wet myself.

The car had Michigan 'historical vehicle' plates on it.

:eek:

I think I had a happy ending right there. I turn around to walk back to the car for another look, figuring I'll never get another chance and about that time the guy hopped in and drove off.

[The Hammer]

Yup, in fact there were quite a few CSX3 series cars that left the factory with a 428 motor. Didn't know that...........

IIRC only the S/C's left the factory with a true 427. All other big block Cobra's had a 428 Police Intercepter V8 in them.

[The Hammer]

Heres my favorite Cobra story. I had a Sunday School teacher when I was 12 (this would have been around 1977-78) who was a Nevada State Trooper in the late 60's early 70's. He said one night he was patroling some long stretch of road when in the distance he saw headlights coming very fast at him, so fast in fact that at first he thought it might be a low flying aircraft. He started to slow down and something very loud and very fast screamed by him. By the time he was able to stop and turn around whatever had passed him was gone. He hit his lights and took off as fast as he felt safe going (which he said was about 120 in his 440 cruiser) and he never saw even tail lights. After about 20 miles he decided to turn around at a truck stop and go back and look for a crash. He pulled off at the truck stop and low and behold there was a big block Cobra filling up. He said the hood was up and heat was pouring off the engine in huge waves. He went over and "advised" the driver that he if ever drove like that on his beat again that he would bury him somewhere in the desert. Just out of curiosity he asked the driver just how fast he was going. The driver replied "I don't know, the speedo only goes up to 160 and I broke it a month ago".:D

[The Hammer]

Heres' the list I go by..........

http://www.musclecargarage.com/50fastestmusclecars.html


And Hammer, I'll let you know how the Superformance Cobras are. I'm ordering mine in july. ;)

with one of these 2 motors:

Roush 402IR (500HP/500 ftlbs)
http://www.roushperformance.com/engine_closeups/402IR_stacked_400.jpg

or the Roush 427R (550HP/535 ftlbs)
http://www.roushperformance.com/engine_closeups/427R.jpg


The 427 is more correct for the car and has a little more juice, but the fuel injection system on the IR series is BAD ASS!!!

Nice! When I was a member of Shelby American Association I drove a few of the then current Superformance Cobras at Charolette Motor Speedway. I was more impressed with the ones that had the SVT V8's in them than I was the "correct" 427 turkey pan side oilers. Post pics when you get it. Then maybe you and I can race for pinks!:D

[Rand262]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/freebass/800px-RichardPettyRoadrunner.jpg
:cool:

That looks like the Richard Petty museum.Long Live "The King"!

[Rand262]

So, in all reality....this:

http://www.musclecarcalendar.com/62Galaxy88.jpg

is the fastest musclecar ever made. a 1962 Ford Galaxie XL 500:eek:

Here's a 63:

http://mustangandfords.com/featuredvehicles/mufp_0508_3z+1963_Ford_Galaxie_Lightweight+Front_P assenger_Side.jpg

Werent these called Thunderbolts?They were factory drag cars.Most had medium riser 427's in them not cammers.I think the cammer was built to compete with the Hemi,it was promptly banned by Nascar.Very cool engine.You gotta love that bubble hood.

[Jugghaid]

Calling the Cammer a "production" engine pretty much makes the term meaningless :D

The put them in around 50 cars.

Not really. It had be BE a production car for homologation purposes for racing. Same as the Hemi Superbird (only 93 made). Was it low production????....sure. But it still qualifies as a production vehicle.

[Jugghaid]

Nice! When I was a member of Shelby American Association I drove a few of the then current Superformance Cobras at Charolette Motor Speedway. I was more impressed with the ones that had the SVT V8's in them than I was the "correct" 427 turkey pan side oilers. Post pics when you get it. Then maybe you and I can race for pinks!:D

:D

There's a Superformance distributor in Castle Rock (about 20 minutes from me) and have checked out the Cobra, Daytona, and GT40's that they make. All very very impressive. They also have a really good working relationship with Roush Performance. Apparently Jack is the motor of choice in these, along with the Tremec T5 tranny. The reason is that these are all windsor based motors as opposed to being true "side-oilers" and they really match well with these cars.

I'm gonna do the drivetrain myself, so even if I order the rolling chassis I want in July, I probably won't have the chassis til october or november and then I'll need a couple of months to finish assembly and testing. I'm thinking first of the year.

No racing for pinks though. I don't want a Chevy in my garage. :D:D:D

[Jugghaid]

Werent these called Thunderbolts?They were factory drag cars.Most had medium riser 427's in them not cammers.I think the cammer was built to compete with the Hemi,it was promptly banned by Nascar.Very cool engine.You gotta love that bubble hood.


There were quite a few 427 "thunderbolts" with the FE 427 side oiler in them. Awesome cars. The "cammer" name was specifically for the 427 SOHC but I have also seen them called "thunderbolts" as well. The "cammers" came with both hoods too. The glass teardrop hood and the factory steel hood. I'm pretty sure the "bolts" did too.

NASCAR didn't officially "ban" the SOHC. They changed the rules after dodge bitched and whined about it. They knew their Hemi was gonna get smoked by this motor, so they got NASCAR to change the rules for homologation. Ford threw in the towel rather than put more of these on the street. They didn't want to see more people getting killed in these street cars.


Here's a nice little vehicle that didn't meet it's reserve on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1964-Galaxie-500-XL-R-Code-Ford-427_W0QQitemZ120105889599QQihZ002QQcategoryZ6233QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and a 427 factory Falcon Sprint (scary fast too)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1964-427-Two-4s-Four-Speed-Ford-Falcon-Sprint_W0QQitemZ320101449337QQihZ011QQcategoryZ623 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[The Hammer]

:D

There's a Superformance distributor in Castle Rock (about 20 minutes from me) and have checked out the Cobra, Daytona, and GT40's that they make. All very very impressive. They also have a really good working relationship with Roush Performance. Apparently Jack is the motor of choice in these, along with the Tremec T5 tranny. The reason is that these are all windsor based motors as opposed to being true "side-oilers" and they really match well with these cars.

I'm gonna do the drivetrain myself, so even if I order the rolling chassis I want in July, I probably won't have the chassis til october or november and then I'll need a couple of months to finish assembly and testing. I'm thinking first of the year.

No racing for pinks though. I don't want a Chevy in my garage. :D:D:D

If I got one I definitely would go for the Roush but I'd opt for the T6 rather than the T5. I had the T5 in my '99 Cobra and the T6 was much much smoother and had the extra high end gear as well:D

[Jugghaid]

My only Cobra story -

Couple years back I'm in Chelsea, Michigan (just this side of Ann Arbor and home of Jiffy cake mix - if you're a yankee and have ever eaten cornbread you've had it). Anyway, my favorite restaurant in the whole world is called the Common Grill and is in Chelsea.

Had a nice lunch. Leave restaurant and see beautiful red 427 S/C kit car parked in front. Nice car. The guy must of been a Cobra nut since this car even has correct 427 S/C badges on the fenders. I figure anybody with money can have a kit car built. Pretty, but not real impressive.

I walk away. Get about half a block down the street and decide to take one more look, so I turn around and almost wet myself.

The car had Michigan 'historical vehicle' plates on it.

:eek:

I think I had a happy ending right there. I turn around to walk back to the car for another look, figuring I'll never get another chance and about that time the guy hopped in and drove off.

Sweet. My dad actually had a 289 FIA Cobra for about a week. He put himself through his masters degree by fixing up old Fords and then selling them for extra cash. He and his partner bought one for $3000 in about 69 or 70 and waxed it, tuned it, and resold it for $5000 a week or 2 later. He only got to drive it a few times. Still kicking himself for that one. :)

Then again, he also had his '59 Sunliner convertible crushed when we moved as he didn't want to deal with putting a new tranny in it and he had to get it out of the garage. :(

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/img/profiles/627/q-1506.jpg

Just like that one, white with the red interior.

[Jugghaid]

If I got one I definitely would go for the Roush but I'd opt for the T6 rather than the T5. I had the T5 in my '99 Cobra and the T6 was much much smoother and had the extra high end gear as well:D

Hmmm.. I s that the same as the T5 w/ overdrive?

[The Hammer]

Hmmm.. I s that the same as the T5 w/ overdrive?

The T5 IIRC is 4 forward gears, 5th is an overdrive. The T6 is 5 forward gears and the 6th is the overdrive. I had one in my 2003 Cobra.

[Jugghaid]

The T5 IIRC is 4 forward gears, 5th is an overdrive. The T6 is 5 forward gears and the 6th is the overdrive. I had one in my 2003 Cobra.

Gotcha. that IS the one I'm looking at.

I think it's actually the T-56 - same tranny that's in your Z-06

http://www.tremec.com/English/products/T-56.asp

I just need to figure out what gear ratios I want....

[The Hammer]

Gotcha. that IS the one I'm looking at.

I think it's actually the T-56 - same tranny that's in your Z-06

http://www.tremec.com/English/products/T-56.asp

I just need to figure out what gear ratios I want....

That is the best stock tranny I've ever used. Better than some aftermarket "racing" trannys I've played with as well. You really ought to look at getting a Z06. But don't take my word for it, ask Nyswonger what he thought of it.:)

[lug]

That is the best stock tranny I've ever used. Better than some aftermarket "racing" trannys I've played with as well. You really ought to look at getting a Z06. But don't take my word for it, ask Nyswonger what he thought of it.:)

+1 maybe the best overall value in a sports car in history.

[The Hammer]

+1 maybe the best overall value in a sports car in history.

I'm biased but I agree. i use mine as a daily driver and it is much much more comfortable than the Cobras that I've had.

[lug]

I'm biased but I agree. i use mine as a daily driver and it is much much more comfortable than the Cobras that I've had.


Let me put it this way. I'm a life long chevy hater. It actually HURTS to admit this! :mad:

[Jugghaid]

Let me put it this way. I'm a life long chevy hater. It actually HURTS to admit this! :mad:

Same here, but it is what it is. My buddy Joe has one, and I have to admit, it's an awesome car. I have another buddy with a Viper GTS coupe, and quite honestly, I'd take the Z06 over the viper all day.


But, my favorite car since I was a litle kid is the Cobra, and since I can't afford an original one ($350k+) this will do me just fine. ;)

[Jugghaid]

That is the best stock tranny I've ever used. Better than some aftermarket "racing" trannys I've played with as well. You really ought to look at getting a Z06. But don't take my word for it, ask Nyswonger what he thought of it.:)

Great stock trannys. The best trany I ever had was the Doug Nash 5 speed in my 'Stang. But he got bought out by richmond gear, and while I heard good things about them, I don't know if they're as good as the original.

[King Kashue]

Not really. It had be BE a production car for homologation purposes for racing. Same as the Hemi Superbird (only 93 made). Was it low production????....sure. But it still qualifies as a production vehicle.

Yeah, only 93 Hemi Superbirds, but that engine went into plenty of other vehicles...Only 50 Cammers were ever made, and they were all basically in-house custom jobs. It'd be like bringing Yenko on the GM payroll and calling it stock :D

[Jugghaid]

Yeah, only 93 Hemi Superbirds, but that engine went into plenty of other vehicles...Only 50 Cammers were ever made, and they were all basically in-house custom jobs. It'd be like bringing Yenko on the GM payroll and calling it stock :D

True. But they also sold a bunch of the motors over the counter as well and they ended up in other cars. Mostly racers but some streeters too. There was a guy about 15 years ago IIRC in Australia that had a bunch of the crate motors that he was selling for $10k each. He could probably get 10 times that now. :)

The only reason they discontinued it was that Mopar and NASCAR screwed them and they ditched the whole project as they really didn't want joe Average putting his foot down on 600+HP in his daily driver. They were afraid they were gonna get sued. :D

Oh, and incidentally, the Yenko S/C Camaro is STILL in my top 5 for all time musclecars.


http://images.google.com/url?q=http://www.stencilsandstripes.com/images/Chevy_Camaro/yenko.jpg&usg=AFrqEzc5wAjg2sAV4jusJs5qpVL6Lgt8gg
http://www.trimble.k12.ky.us/tchsweb/special%20problems/special%20topics2006/Powell%20Personal/69%20Yenko%20orange%20white.jpg

The Yenko Chevelles were also sweet
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/Thumbs/69YenkoChevelle3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/Supercars.htm&h=77&w=115&sz=3&hl=en&start=12&um=1&tbnid=BixDxT2ER7M83M:&tbnh=58&tbnw=87&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dyenko%2B427%2Bchevelle%26svnum%3D10%2 6um%3D1%26hl%3Den

And the Baldwin Motion Camaro was a seriously bad ass car

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/Thumbs/69YenkoChevelle3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/Supercars.htm&h=77&w=115&sz=3&hl=en&start=12&um=1&tbnid=BixDxT2ER7M83M:&tbnh=58&tbnw=87&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dyenko%2B427%2Bchevelle%26svnum%3D10%2 6um%3D1%26hl%3Den
And I'm a Ford guy. :D

[King Kashue]

The only reason they discontinued it was that Mopar and NASCAR screwed them and they ditched the whole project as they really didn't want joe Average putting his foot down on 600+HP in his daily driver. They were afraid they were gonna get sued. :D

Well, yeah...It was never intended for even a single second for use as a road engine. Which again, hits on the issue of how it was "production", if they explicitly (company documents are pretty damn clear) didn't want it on the road, but only on the track. :D

[Jugghaid]

Well, yeah...It was never intended for even a single second for use as a road engine. Which again, hits on the issue of how it was "production", if they explicitly (company documents are pretty damn clear) didn't want it on the road, but only on the track. :D

Still, legally 50 cars is a "production" vehicle. ;)

And you gotta remember that John Delorean at the same time was trying to get Pontiac and DOT to approve him putting a big block motor in a mid sized car. They were fighting about that for years. He finally won. Build the Godfather (whiched turned into the GTO) which was the first big block mid size american made car IIRC.

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/pontiac-gto/images/pontiac-gto-1964a.jpg

[King Kashue]

Still, legally 50 cars is a "production" vehicle. ;)

And you gotta remember that John Delorean at the same time was trying to get Pontiac and DOT to approve him putting a big block motor in a mid sized car. They were fighting about that for years. He finally won. Build the Godfather (whiched turned into the GTO) which was the first big block mid size american made car IIRC.

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/pontiac-gto/images/pontiac-gto-1964a.jpg

Yep, DeLorean invented the musclecar while working for Pontiac...Gotta love the 1960s, designers saying "Hey, lets put racing engines in mid-sized family cars", auto companies outright lying to the government about how powerful their motors were in order to get approval...

There's a reason all those cars are so cool :D


And those 50 Cammers were sold to drag racers, not to the general public, which was one of the main reasons NASCAR wouldn't accept them (it wasn't just some Mopar conspiracy, NASCAR wasn't stupid, they knew Ford had no intention to put the engine in street cars)...

[NotFSI]

Yep, DeLorean invented the musclecar while working for Pontiac...Gotta love the 1960s, designers saying "Hey, lets put racing engines in mid-sized family cars", auto companies outright lying to the government about how powerful their motors were in order to get approval...

There's a reason all those cars are so cool :D


The '80s were quite cool, too

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Ford_RS200.jpg

0-60: 2.8s
0-100: 7.3s
Standing 1/4 mile - 11.4s, 115mph

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hP-peuYguL8

pwned! :eek:

[allan]

And you gotta remember that John Delorean at the same time was trying to get Pontiac and DOT to approve him putting a big block motor in a mid sized car. They were fighting about that for years. He finally won. Build the Godfather (whiched turned into the GTO) which was the first big block mid size american made car IIRC.

Wasn't block selection it was engine displacement - GM had a corporate rule about not putting an engine bigger than 400 ci in a midsize car. Liability from all that horsepower and all. That rule stayed in place until 1970. DOT might have been in there, but John was swimming upstream - the engine restriction was a corporate mandate and not even Pontiac could get around it ;)

[King Kashue]

Wasn't block selection it was engine displacement - GM had a corporate rule about not putting an engine bigger than 400 ci in a midsize car. Liability from all that horsepower and all. That rule stayed in place until 1970. DOT might have been in there, but John was swimming upstream - the engine restriction was a corporate mandate and not even Pontiac could get around it ;)

:confused:

they had 427 in the 69 Camaro and the 401 in the Skylark GSs from 65-67...


And it definitely wasn't block selection in the Pontiac, since before the introduction of the 400, all the displacements were the same block :D (Which is why it's so damn easy to find 421 Tripower setups in the 64-66 Goats :D)

[allan]

:confused:

they had 427 in the 69 Camaro and the 401 in the Skylark GSs from 65-67...


And it definitely wasn't block selection in the Pontiac, since before the introduction of the 400, all the displacements were the same block :D (Which is why it's so damn easy to find 421 Tripower setups in the 64-66 Goats :D)

I can't explain the 427 Camaro, though - they also built 363 427 Chevelles in 1969.

We don't makes the news, we just reports it ;)

http://media.www.missouri-miner.com/media/storage/paper426/news/2003/02/06/Features/Grease.And.Gears-361681.shtml

...General Motors finally lifted its restriction of not allowing engines bigger than 400 cubic inches in a mid-size car in 1970.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/30004-1965-olds-cutlass-4-4-2.htm

...Also for 1965, GM raised the displacement ceiling on intermediates to 400 cubic inches. Olds destroked and debored its new 425-cid big-car V-8 to create a hot 400-cid V-8 exclusively for the 1965 Oldsmobile Cutlass 4-4-2. With this change, the name now meant 400 cubes, four-barrel carburetor, and dual exhausts.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1970-chevrolet-chevelle-ss-454.htm

The age of muscle cars peaked as the 1970s began -- and the 1970 Chevrolet Chevelle SS 454 helped to herald the ascent. When GM lifted its displacement ban on midsize cars, Pontiac, Olds, and Buick responded with 455-cid mills with up to 370 bhp. Chevy's retort was a 454-cid V-8 that started at 360 bhp and ended at a barbaric 450. This was the muscle car summit.

http://groups.msn.com/NorthernBuickClub/gshistory.msnw

General Motors surrendered itself to temptation in 1970 and lifted its 400-cid limit on its intermediate cars. That unleashed some of the quickest automobiles ever to come out of Detroit and helped make this the pinnacle year for American muscle...

...The success of the 1964 Pontiac GTO encouraged Buick to produce a muscle car of their own. General Motors placed a corporate maximum of 400 cubic inches in their intermediates, but Buick just shoehorned their existing 401 cubic inch fullsize car engine into their Skylark to create the Buick Skylark Gran Sport.

[Grumpy_Polecat]

CSX3015

[Jugghaid]

CSX3015

That would be the one Mr. Shelby sold for 5 mil I believe. The "Super Snake"

Baddest ride ever IMO.

[Jugghaid]

Yep, DeLorean invented the musclecar while working for Pontiac...Gotta love the 1960s, designers saying "Hey, lets put racing engines in mid-sized family cars", auto companies outright lying to the government about how powerful their motors were in order to get approval...

There's a reason all those cars are so cool :D


And those 50 Cammers were sold to drag racers, not to the general public, which was one of the main reasons NASCAR wouldn't accept them (it wasn't just some Mopar conspiracy, NASCAR wasn't stupid, they knew Ford had no intention to put the engine in street cars)...

Not true. While drag racers lined up like crazy to get their hands on them, they were for sale to the general public, not just racers. Most of the crate motors were also bought by drag racers as well, mostly for rails, but anyone could walk in to a ford dealership and buy one.

What NASCAR did was raise the required production number to higher than 50 to homologate the car after getting a ton of pressure from Mopar as they didn't want Petty and the rest of their racers facing off against a way more powerful car. Can't say I really blame them, but that's what happened.

[King Kashue]

Not true. While drag racers lined up like crazy to get their hands on them, they were for sale to the general public, not just racers. Most of the crate motors were also bought by drag racers as well, mostly for rails, but anyone could walk in to a ford dealership and buy one.

What NASCAR did was raise the required production number to higher than 50 to homologate the car after getting a ton of pressure from Mopar as they didn't want Petty and the rest of their racers facing off against a way more powerful car. Can't say I really blame them, but that's what happened.

They were sold not as options on a vehicle, but through a separate parts order, and the engine alone cost $2350 at a time when the top of the line muscle cars cost $3500-4500 complete. It was not a dealer option.

As you already noted, the engines were essentially hand built.

Unfortunately, the documents aren't online or I'd link them, but Ford didn't want the damn things on the street. Again, you yourself noted that they didn't since they would get sued. How can you say that, and then say they intended it as a street engine?

Was it a sweet ass engine? Oh yeah, most powerful of the era by far, but it was essentially a hand built, fully machined custom engine, that sold only 50 including to racers, and that Ford didn't want on the road...I still maintain that throws the term "production" out of whack...

[Grumpy_Polecat]

Baddest ride ever IMO.

Maybe not, but it's the baddest that still exists!(on 4 wheels)

3015 is the first of two ever built, it recently got the highest price ever paid for a car, new or used, at the Barrett/Jackson auction. 5.5 million USD.

The other one was built for Bill Cosby, who promptly returned it and went home to write the routine '200 miles an hour.'

Cosby's Super Snake (CSX3303) was resold and taken over a cliff shortly thereafter.

They both had twin Paxton superchargers shoehorned along with the Ford 427 into the (slightly widened) AC body. They were the barely street-legal version of the Comp Cobras that had no mufflers, bumpers or bugscreen.

It's possible that 3303 was the faster car of the two, at least in terms of airspeed!

My all-time fantasy ride.

Just once I want to drive it. Then when the terror wears off, I want a shot at a Huyabusa.

[basslord1124]

Don't think it registers in the muscle car category, but it is still my dream car...

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/basslord1124/DeLorean.jpg

:)

[Jugghaid]

My all-time fantasy ride.



You and me both. :)

[Jugghaid]

They were sold not as options on a vehicle, but through a separate parts order, and the engine alone cost $2350 at a time when the top of the line muscle cars cost $3500-4500 complete. It was not a dealer option.

As you already noted, the engines were essentially hand built.

Unfortunately, the documents aren't online or I'd link them, but Ford didn't want the damn things on the street. Again, you yourself noted that they didn't since they would get sued. How can you say that, and then say they intended it as a street engine?

Was it a sweet ass engine? Oh yeah, most powerful of the era by far, but it was essentially a hand built, fully machined custom engine, that sold only 50 including to racers, and that Ford didn't want on the road...I still maintain that throws the term "production" out of whack...

You can argue it all you want, but the fact remains that you could go to your dealer and buy a Galaxie 500XL loaded with the 427 SOHC. They made 50 of them, so by the rules in place at that time, it was a production vehicle. Was it intended for racers and not John Q. Public? Yeah, probably....but that doesn't change the fact that John could go buy one....does it? ;) Your definition of "production" just happens to be different than the actual official definition of "production". Same goes for high end Ferraris etc. There may be a hell of a lot less than 50 made and they are hand made custom engines in there too. Doesn't mean they aren't "production" cars. It just means that they are very LOW production cars.

[Jugghaid]

Don't think it registers in the muscle car category, but it is still my dream car...

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/basslord1124/DeLorean.jpg

:)

When I worked at the Wequassett Inn out in Chatham forever ago, we hosted a weekend bash for the Delorean Motor Owners Association. It was a trip. We had about 200 of those damn thing running all over the place. I think 198 of them broke down over the weekend too. POS Renault motor in them. There was one guy there that had swapped it out for a Lotus Esprit motor and that car was seriously bad ass with that engine and tranny in it. Delorean shoulda spent a little more money on the drivetrain and a little less on blow. :)

I also heard that there are still a few hundred of them, brand new, sitting in a government warehouse from when they siezed all of his assets. Don't know if that's true or not though.

[NotFSI]

When I worked at the Wequassett Inn out in Chatham forever ago, we hosted a weekend bash for the Delorean Motor Owners Association. It was a trip. We had about 200 of those damn thing running all over the place. I think 198 of them broke down over the weekend too. POS Renault motor in them. There was one guy there that had swapped it out for a Lotus Esprit motor and that car was seriously bad ass with that engine and tranny in it. Delorean shoulda spent a little more money on the drivetrain and a little less on blow. :)

I also heard that there are still a few hundred of them, brand new, sitting in a government warehouse from when they siezed all of his assets. Don't know if that's true or not though.

I dunno about that, but I know that all the machine tools for making them were dumped in the Irish Sea

[Jugghaid]

I dunno about that, but I know that all the machine tools for making them were dumped in the Irish Sea

Really? I wonder why they would do that? Time to put on some scuba gear eh? :)

[Grumpy_Polecat]

Don't think it registers in the muscle car category, but it is still my dream car...

:)

IIRC Delorean wanted to equip the car with Ford's 351 Cleveland. (Much of JD's design was a direct copy of the Bricklin, that came equipped as such, but which had an acrylic (read: dent-proof) body.) He was unable to cut a deal with Blue Oval however, (Partly because the 351C was already obsalesced into the less successful but still formidable 351M, which too had its production days numbered by the time Delorean was lining up his ducks) and so went to the French.

Had this happened though, it DEFINITELY would have been a muscle car. ANYTHING with a 351 Cleveland is a Muscle Car!

(Some day I'll have to write the story of Bobby Powers (a high school friend) and his Cleveland-powered Pinto. It's an exercise in stark terror!)

[niomosy]

Actually one of these 427 SC but I don't know if the Shelbys count as a true "production" car like a GTO or Camaro would. But great post none the less :thu:

http://cars.bayaw.com/pictures/1967-Shelby-Cobra-427-1.jpg

I thought that they had to run a certain (rather low) production number to be considered a production car for some of the races they were doing?

[The Hammer]

http://www.detomaso.nu/pantera_gt5_bild1.jpg

I can't believe that no one has posted one of these yet. The DeTomaso Pantera. Ford Winsor 351 V8 sold at Lincoln Mercury dealerships.:)

[Jugghaid]

http://www.detomaso.nu/pantera_gt5_bild1.jpg

I can't believe that no one has posted one of these yet. The DeTomaso Pantera. Ford Winsor 351 V8 sold at Lincoln Mercury dealerships.:)

Those are awesome cars. I love them. In fact I have the original framed ad for that car hanging on my ofice wall right now. That is probably the ONLY car that I would consider instead of a Cobra replica. And that's only if I found a "right" one.

that one looks like the later series right before they discontinued them. The GT5

I like the early ones too:

http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/st/stlouiscarmuseum/1pantera71YelBlk.jpg

[lug]

Those are awesome cars. I love them. In fact I have the original framed ad for that car hanging on my ofice wall right now. That is probably the ONLY car that I would consider instead of a Cobra replica. And that's only if I found a "right" one.

that one looks like the later series right before they discontinued them. The GT5

I like the early ones too:

http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/st/stlouiscarmuseum/1pantera71YelBlk.jpg


****7260 vehicles have been built between 1970 and 1991****
http://www.detomaso.it/gb/vetture/ieri/pantera.html

Lot's of people don't realize these were built in Australia by Foster Drinkin' Australians from 1980 to 1991. :D

[Grumpy_Polecat]

****7260 vehicles have been built between 1970 and 1991****
http://www.detomaso.it/gb/vetture/ieri/pantera.html

Lot's of people don't realize these were built in Australia by Foster Drinkin' Australians from 1980 to 1991. :D

Which in itself explains why so FEW were bulit.

"Ummm, where's my beer, mate? We can take a break and finish up later..."

[Jugghaid]

And the engines ran backwards. :D

[Jugghaid]

One of the other all time coolest cars...the Vector twin turbo W8 and the WX3

http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/vector/vector_w_0_16.jpg
http://www.chem.ucla.edu/~na/pics/cars/vector/vectorwx3.jpg

More an early 80's to 90's car but still sweet. My brother used to work at the printed circuit board factory that made the boards for the digital dash. He got to ride in one when they came by to show off the car (they wouldn't let him drive it though) :( That was the W2, one of the earlier cars

http://vectornut.com/images/vehicles/vector/02.jpg

[NotFSI]

Not american, or a muscle car, but quite blatantly the coolest looking car ever built

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fb/JagXJ220.JPG

[Jugghaid]

Not american, or a muscle car, but quite blatantly the coolest looking car ever built

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fb/JagXJ220.JPG

The Jag 220 is sweet. Not my all time favorrite, but really nice.

So is the Saleen S7

http://www.saleen.com/images/2005_s7_gallery_main_2.jpg

And 250 MPH ain't slow. :)

[Jugghaid]

Some 60's Italian Muscle...............


http://www.arcadiadreams.com/images/ad_automobili/Lamborghini_Miura_SV1973.jpg

[King Kashue]

You can argue it all you want, but the fact remains that you could go to your dealer and buy a Galaxie 500XL loaded with the 427 SOHC.

As I said, no you couldn't, it wasn't a dealer option, it had to be ordered through Ford Parts. You could pick up the vehicle at the dealership, but it wasn't a standard dealer option.

They made 50 of them, so by the rules in place at that time, it was a production vehicle. Was it intended for racers and not John Q. Public? Yeah, probably....but that doesn't change the fact that John could go buy one....does it? ;):wave: Your definition of "production" just happens to be different than the actual official definition of "production". Same goes for high end Ferraris etc. There may be a hell of a lot less than 50 made and they are hand made custom engines in there too. Doesn't mean they aren't "production" cars. It just means that they are very LOW production cars.

Yeah, but Enzo actually expects and wants people to drive his cars on a city street ;)

As for definitions, it was "production" for a few months, then it wasn't, when NASCAR changed the rules from 50 to 500...You want to use the first definition, I want to use the second...We could always flip a coin :D

[lug]

Some 60's Italian Muscle...............


http://www.arcadiadreams.com/images/ad_automobili/Lamborghini_Miura_SV1973.jpg

Aerodynamic science not really being quite up to snuff in those days, I read a review where when a test driver got the Muria to just over 180, the front end would lift and he could no longer steer the car. :D

[Jugghaid]

Aerodynamic science not really being quite up to snuff in those days, I read a review where when a test driver got the Muria to just over 180, the front end would lift and he could no longer steer the car. :D

Wow. Never heard that one. You know they are coming out with a new Miura right?

http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2006/01/06-lamborghini-miura-concept/_Lamborghini%20Miura%20Concept%201.jpg

http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2006/01/06-lamborghini-miura-concept/Lamborghini%20Miura%20Concept%202.jpg